 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-08 15:56
When did Buffet begin plating R13s with nickel rather than "German silver"? I've searched the archives here but didn't find an answer to my question. My 95K series (1967) has the "German silver" and a 106K series (1969) has the nickel.
Bill.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2004-12-08 16:29
My 103xxx (1968) Buffet has nickel plated keys. Good question, but I am unaware of how many other models were silver plated during or after that period. I prefer the look of nickel plate. Other BB members may be more knowledgable.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-08 18:14
Just a note - I use these terms without expertise!
My question is simply when did the surface material (metal) change from the dull stuff of the 40s and 50s and early 60s to the shiny stuff? I realize "German silver" doesn't have very much silver, etc. That's why I use quotations.
Thanks!
Bill.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-08 18:30
Bill wrote:
I realize "German silver" doesn't have very
> much silver, etc.
No silver, actually ...
"German silver" is the base metal - it's not used as a plating since it's an alloy (nickel, copper, and zinc, with sometimes lead and/or tin mixed in).
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Author: jim S.
Date: 2004-12-08 18:43
GBK say "Moennig stopped selling Buffets after 125,000 because he couldn't get nickel silver keywork" or something like that. So maybe between 125,000 and 106,000 they sold both.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-08 18:49
jim S. wrote:
> GBK say "Moennig stopped selling Buffets after 125,000 because
> he couldn't get nickel silver keywork" or something like that.
> So maybe between 125,000 and 106,000 they sold both.
Just to clarify, "German silver" and "nickel silver" are the same thing. It could be (as I think jim S. was saying) that at some time you could get unplated keys, but after that time you could only get plated keys.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-08 19:31
Actually, what I had wriiten was:
"...Hans Moennig supposedly stopped selling R-13's after about #125,000 because of the changes that had been made to the keywork and springs, as well as the fact that he could no longer order clarinets with unplated keys (which he felt were not as slippery as nickel or silver, and easier to file and bend)..."
...GBK
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-12-08 20:34
I believe Buffet began plating keys around 1961. It's possible that customers could special order clarinets with unplated keys. Personally, I've never seen an R-13 with unplated keys that was made after 1961-62.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-08 20:55
Interesting what Vytas says. My 1967 Buffet "A" clarinet has unplated keys. My 1961 Selmer had plated keys ("slippery," "shiny," whatever).
Bill.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-12-08 21:21
My R13 was selected from Moennig's shop in 1962 and is not silver plated.
At the time there was a brochure on his countertop indicating that Buffet offered silver plate. Moennig did not stock this option, of course.
These horns came with Chedeville blank mouthpieces (stock C facing of Buffet) and Moennig selected the barrel...67mm...from his case, and altered the bell and did his cork thing on the upper joint pads, sans the one between the rings. He also cut off the wings from the bridge mechanism. The whole package came to less than a "set-up" overhaul does now (sigh)
Latter day techs opt to "polish" the keys on these instruments with a fine wire brush if needed.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-11-06 21:00
These unplated Buffets made of Nickel silver/ Maillechort/ whatever, whilst giving a fantastic feel that I feel is unmatched by any plating bar silver, do tarnish extremely quickly.
Does anyone have a recommended fix for slowing the rapid process down?
Many thanks
Nick
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Author: carrielj
Date: 2005-11-07 11:19
I would also like to know what will slow this process down. I have a 1955 R-13 and it only takes them a week to start tarnishing.
Carrie
Carrie
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-11-07 13:11
I use a "silver bag" bought from Hagerty
24" x 30" Zippered Holloware Bag and turn it inside out and put it over my Clarinets in the case. It keeps sulfur gases from getting to the Clarinet and have zero tarnish.
http://www.hagerty-polish.com/index.php/cPath/3_19100
I have only silver plated instruments so not sure about nickel if that's what you have.
Post Edited (2005-11-07 13:20)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-11-07 13:52
I have many unplated nickel-silver (a.k.a. 'German silver') clarinets, as most of my instruments are pre-WW2 and that was the prevalent form of keywork at the time. The best way to keep them looking good is to thoroughly wipe and polish the keywork (every bit of it, including posts, fittings, and tenon/bell rings) with a soft cotton cloth (such as a bath towel) after EVERY use, and occasionally (maybe once a month) doing a touch-up polish using another soft cotton towel very lightly soaked with some Brasso or similar metal polish, or an impregnated cotton wadding such as 'Nevr-Dull'. You have to make very sure not to get any of these chemicals on pads or corks.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-11-07 20:14
Like Carrie, my keys on a '56 R13 yellow and 'vein' very quickly. Would a coating prevent tarnish? There is chap over here in the UK that sells something that is a polish that coats surfaces and prevents tarnish. I've emailed for the brand name an details. Do you think is acceptable, or are coatings a no-no?
Nick
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-11-07 20:40
The problem with most coatings is that, unless you do an absolutely fabulous job cleaning and chemically preparing the surface, the base metal will tarnish anyway --- UNDER the coating, in which case you now have to remove the coating in order to remove the tarnish. Tends to be counterproductive.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-11-08 07:55
Makes sense: methinks I'll stick with the champagne finish that age imbues these keys with. I can't see myself wiping pillars and rods after each practise.
My guess is the haegerty bags won't do it, as I have a silver plated clarinet as well that does not tarnish quickly. These old maillechort/ german silver keys 'age' about 50 times more quickly than silver plate.
Nick
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