 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-11-05 15:35
Pete Fountain did this ALL the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsK9N5Z7D0
The beginning of the each piece he plays is riddled with this..........but as you listen you'll hear that's just how how he plays most things.
Years ago on this thread I said the half tonguing was what was happening and someone countered that it must just be a llght tonguing on the beginning of the note.
vindication
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-11-05 18:40
Shengwen Wu in her dissertation on Pete Fountain's style includes a section on ghost tonguing with transcribed excerpts from his recordings to illustrated the technique. (Thanks to Andy Whiteford for bringing this dissertation to our attention).
See pages 12-15 here:
https://repository.asu.edu/items/53907
One of the reasons Fountain preferred the crystal O'Brien mouthpiece he got from Irving Fazola was that it made it easier to ghost tongue and "diddle-diddle" tongue.
Post Edited (2020-11-05 19:53)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-11-05 19:20
Yes, thanks!
Once downloaded you'll see under "articulation" page 12 that the author gets into various methods. On page 14 there is the direct reference to "dood-en" tonguing as mentioned in the video.
Personally after all the rhetoric, I think the young sax player lays it all out MUCH clearer.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-11-05 19:46
Saxlogic is one of the best channels on YouTube for discussing saxophone style.
But style is a very personal matter and techniques that fit into one player's style might clash with another's. One example would be trumpet lip trills. Miles Davis hardly ever used them, so they are not essential to jazz trumpet. Phil Woods was a devotee of Charlie Parker's style and could zip off any Parker improvisation letter perfect if he wanted to (including the Parker with strings pieces) but his signature alto sax style was distinctly different from Parker's even in articulation. On the clarinet, Woods had still another style, lighter and more lyrical, with its own articulation patterns, and not much use of ghost tonguing.
Listen to Days of Wine and Roses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_rWvNd-2Gc.
This has a wonderful groove and lilt to it and swings just as much as Fountain, yet the articulation (and vibrato) patterns are very different. So also is the rhythmic, melodic and chordal conception, which draws on Latin American and modern jazz structures Fountain either didn't know or avoided. Bottom line: you can phrase jazz in almost unlimited numbers of ways and many different articulation styles.
Post Edited (2020-11-05 22:20)
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2020-11-05 19:49
That is the idea; using the tongue to mute the reed. Personally, I use very little tongue on the side of the reed to get a ghost note effect. Hope that helps
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-11-05 22:37
I love Phil Woods's clarinet playing. So smooth and tasty! Thanks for this link :-)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2020-11-06 04:48
Not quite sure how the muted effect adds an accent. With a steam of eighth notes I would assume you want a slight emphasis on 2nd, 4th, 6 th notes.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-11-06 05:50
As explained in the video (really a good, solid resource!) the ghost note is the note PRIOR to the emphasis. Just like any other dynamic situation, you create louder by making other things around it......softer.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-11-06 13:38
BUT.............
the emphasis (in jazz) is on the OFF BEAT.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2020-11-06 18:29
It’s a bit confusing. Placing the tongue on the reed for every second note in a stream of eighths is at once muting the note and simultaneously emphasizing it naturally. When tempos are fast these eighth notes are pretty quick so this technique is good for bebop.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2020-11-06 18:37)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-11-06 18:46
I must assume that you have not watched the 11 minute Saxologic video posted above.
But if you'd EVER heard Pete Fountain play (also posted above) you hear many moments of a repeated note that sound both slightly covered and then immediately uncovered (almost like a trumpet player using a hat mute).
We are only putting forth HOW that is done, not whether it is standard, classical methodology.
It is harder to pick this differential out of the Charlie Parker example on both the Saxologic video and actual Charlie Parker playing...........but the difference in the overall style WITH and WITHOUT ghost tonguing should be obvious.
Not to confuse this too much, there is also a technique where you play a repeated note with every other note using the technique of opening up vent keys that only slightly change the quality and intonation of that note............similar sound.........similar use.
Though as a classical clarinet player I have never had to incorporate this into my technique, it is nice though to know how it is done.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2020-11-06 20:24
It is similar to doo wah mute effect on the trumpet. The effect is achieved by the technique generally starting on the second eighth.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-11-07 03:39
Arnoldstang: it wouldn't be confusing if you watched the video in the original post. The guy lays it out step by step and explains it all very well.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2020-11-08 08:14
I didn’t understand his video on the first listening. He doesn’t mention the first note. So air attack on the first eighth then Doo on the second and “n”on the third. Doo on the 4 th etc. Now I think I understand. It all go past very quickly which is part of bebop.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2020-11-08 08:36)
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The Clarinet Pages
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