 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BuyingABuffet
Date: 2019-04-13 00:46
Hello Everyone!
I’m in the market for a new Buffet A clarinet. I currently live on the East coast in the States. After doing considerable research on how to best go about purchasing an instrument at a reasonable price, i.e. looking at all the different models, looking for open box or lightly used instruments, etc. I discovered that American pricing is significantly higher across the board than in most of Europe. So much so, that it appears as though it would be significantly cheaper to fly to, let’s say London, pick out an instrument there and then bring it back to the States, than to travel internally and pick one out here. So that brings me to this post, does anyone have experience flying to a European country to buy a new instrument? Are there some hidden costs that I am not accounting for that would make the trip not worth it? I will lay out my plan below, with approximate costs; I would love to get some input on it to see if there is something I am missing. Thanks for reading!
I think it’s best to start with instrument pricing. Let’s look at the costs for four different Buffet models. All U.S. prices are taken from the Wesley Rice Clarinet site, which appears to have the standard U.S. prices. https://www.clarinet-repairs.com/buffetclarinets.html
All UK prices are taken from Howarth of London’s website. https://www.howarth.uk.com/clarinets.html. I have converted the price from Pounds to U.S.D. so these numbers will obviously fluctuate day to day. It is also important to note that I have not included the cost of VAT.
Base Cost
A Festival: U.S. Price $5557 UK Price $4,348
A R-13 Prestige: U.S. Price $7074 UK Price $4,348
A RC Prestige: U.S. Price $7416 UK Price $4,348
A Tosca: U.S. Price $8241 UK Price $5,896
So here are our base prices. We obviously haven’t factored in travel, lodging, taxes, or anything else on either side of the equation
Let’s look at tax and duty now. If I purchased any of these instruments in America, I would most likely be doing so in NYC, the combined rate of sales tax in NYC is about 8.875%. Purchasing in London is a little more complicated. If I travel without a card that allows free International Transactions, I will have to add 3% to the total cost of the instrument. After that is added, I will have to pay an additional 2.9% in duty tax (this appears to be the duty rate on Clarinets, can anyone confirm this?) I will add both of these figures to the instrument totals now. Feel free to check my math! Everything is rounded to the nearest dollar.
Cost with tax/duty
A Festival: U.S. Price $6050 UK Price $4605
A R-13 Prestige: U.S Price $7702 UK Price $4605
A RC Prestige: U.S. Price $8074 UK Price $4605
A Tosca: U.S. Price $8972 UK Price $6244
Now let’s add in the cost of travel. I live close enough to NYC that I could go into the city, select an instrument and be home later that evening. The cost of travel, parking, food etc I estimate to be about $100. I will add that to the U.S. Prices. Obviously for the UK it's going to be significantly more expensive. Currently a ticket to London, for a four day round trip would cost me approximately $504 dollars. If you add in getting to and from the airport we can round it up to $550. It looks like it would be very easy to find a hotel for about $120 a night in the part of town I would like to stay in. I would stay 3 nights, so $360. Add in food and other transportation, sightseeing and touristy costs, $200.
Total of about $1,110. Realistically this number could be several hundreds of dollars lower or higher depending on how cheaply (or expensively) you want to do it.
Cost with Taxes And Travel
A Festival: U.S. Price $6150 UK Price $5715
A R-13 Prestige: U.S. Price $7802 UK Price $5715
A RC Prestige: U.S. Price $8174 UK Price $5715
A Tosca: U.S. Price $9072 UK Price $7354
So that leaves us with the above cost table. It appears that no matter what instrument you buy, it would be cheaper to fly to Europe, buy it there and bring it back, rather than buying that same instrument in the states. I realize there is a cost of convenience that we are paying for when buying in the U.S. and not everyone wants to leave the country to get their next instrument, but for me, if I could get some traveling in while buying an instrument for cheaper, it seems like a fun experience. BUT, please look over my numbers and tear this apart. Show me why this is a bad idea, or if there is something I am missing. I should note that this post is in part inspired by Michael Lowenstern’s guide on how to buy a Bass Clarinet in France which you can read here: https://www.earspasm.com/blog/buying-a-bass-clarinet-in-2014
Also, I am adding this footnote in the hopes that this post doesn’t get derailed by some overzealous commenters. I have tried nearly every other brand of instrument at one point or another. I have played exclusively on Yamaha’s for the last seven years. So, before you comment saying, “Why don’t you just buy a ______ and avoid all the headache,” please know that I have already done my due diligence.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-04-13 02:05
You should go for it. You've done your due diligence.
For me it wouldn't be a factor of convenience: it would be that my time away from family is valuable to me, and offsets the cost reductions. But your circumstance is different.
Your only problem is that you'll lack another person's set of ears, at least a person you're familiar with, when you want an opinion. Best to also recognize that sound concepts and nomenclature may be dramatically different. But I wouldn't let that dissuade me in your position.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2019-04-13 03:41
You should also search the board for importing grenadilla wood clarinets. This wood is on a special list limiting imports, and you may require a special certificate. It would not be fun to arrive at JFK and have your clarinet confiscated at customs.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BuyingABuffet
Date: 2019-04-13 04:00
Thank you both for your responses, you both bring up good points! Not having a trusted set of ears is something I hadn't considered. Also, the CITES regulation is a big thing that I had not considered and would add significant headache to the process. Thank you for that reminder as well. However, according to this NAMM posting:
https://www.namm.org/issues-and-advocacy/regulatory-compliance/CITES
It might not be an issue for much longer, but that's assuming the annotation gets approved.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Smaug
Date: 2019-04-13 05:45
Hello, I just did this very task in that I created an account here to apprise how it went.
I was in London on vacation, and I bought an R13 from Howarth of London three weeks ago. When everything is complete, I think I will have saved at least $1,000 versus buying one in the US. (not counting travel costs)
Assuming you purchase in the UK (other countries could be different), your total cost WILL include the 20% VAT. At the time of purchase, ask for a VAT refund form. You may have to show your passport. The lady I worked with at Howarth (her name was Katie) was very knowledgeable about how it worked.
When you fly out of the EU to go back home... You must find the tax refund desk before you go through security. Have your VAT refund form, your purchase receipt, and the clarinet with you. Because of the amount of the refund, you may then be told to go to yet another tax refund desk after security. (Take your clarinet as carry-on. Do not check it because the tax refund official may ask to see it!!!) When you are done, your VAT refund form must have an official stamp from one of the tax officials.
When you arrive in the US, you must declare to US Customs that you are carrying purchased merchandise over your personal exemption. They will ask what it is and how much (be honest), and then the officer will decide if you are subject to duty. Usually for small amounts over the limit, they may just wave you through. (That's what happened with me, and I did not have to pay anything extra.) However, before I left, I talked with someone at US Customs what the duty percentage would be for clarinets. They looked it up, and told me ZERO percent. I though it was 4.9%. So you may be OK no matter what, but that is also dependent on the officer at whatever port of entry you use.
As for CITES, I was told that it does not apply to personal items brought back with you. (It applies more to cargo when items are shipped.) I was not even questioned about CITES when I came through US Customs with my clarinet even though I declared it.
When I came back in the US, I mailed the stamped VAT form back to Howarth. Katie told me when she receives it, they will refund my credit card for the amount of the VAT. I mailed my form a week ago, and I'm currently waiting for them to receive it and post the refund.
So, that's my experience. I hope it helps.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BuyingABuffet
Date: 2019-04-13 08:06
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I really appreciate it, it is incredibly helpful and definitely puts me more at ease.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-04-13 09:56
Keep in mind Dawkes is just 1h or less outside of London, so you might want to check what they have on offer, too. They sure have even lower prices.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paulyb
Date: 2019-04-13 12:42
Whichever shop you go to, do email ahead to make sure they have the models you are considering in stock.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2019-04-13 17:07
One minor consideration is that your warranty will be good in Great Britain, but not in the US.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roxann
Date: 2019-04-13 17:47
I wonder if you could get around the import (grenadilla) and warranty problems if you were to purchase the instrument in London then have them ship it directly to you?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-04-13 17:51
CITES has no impact on purchasing or traveling with instruments. You have to be traveling with more than 10kg of wood itself (no mechanism).
Take your A, Bb, Eb, and bass — and you’re under the 10Kg.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Leon P
Date: 2019-04-13 21:50
This is an adventure. Open your soul to all the new things that you'll experience and enjoy the richness of the experience. Break new ground for yourself and let yourself fall in love with the delights possible only when you try something which is out of the ordinary.
You'll meet new people. You'll see new places. You'll have the chance to share yourself with others.
On top of that, you'll end up with a new lifelong friend in the clarinet which comes home with you.
Cheers!
Léon P
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2019-04-13 22:18
If you're planning to buy a clarinet in the UK, make sure you do it before Brexit!!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-04-13 22:24
It has occurred to me there is one possible situation that would be hard to accept: what if you go and you don’t find a horn you like?
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BuyingABuffet
Date: 2019-04-14 03:18
Kalashnikirby - Thank you for passing that along, I think I will be emailing them, Howarth and maybe Clarinet and Flute, to see what their current stock is or will be.
Steven O - In regards to warranty, I believe Buffets standard manufacturer's warranty is still applicable regardless of the country of purchase. Though, any extended warranty obtained through the store, would, I imagine, be next to useless. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know!
Roxann - Having the instrument shipped to me is something I considered, but I'm hoping it won't be necessary.
Tobin - This is something that crossed my mind, but I'm not too worried about it. Even though I only listed those 4 models, I am open to most of the Buffet lineup. With all the different retailers in the London area I'm pretty confident I'll be able to find something that I will like among the various models that are available.
Thank you to everyone else who has commented! Your advice, thoughts and encouragement has been welcome and helpful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-04-14 03:31
Good luck and please let us know how it all goes!
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-04-14 07:22
If they ship the instrument, Howarth will do the CITES paperwork for something like £50. If you bring it back, no form is required. I recently came back with a set of S&Ss, declared the full value at US Customs, and they sent me through the nothing to declare line. I think there's a very hefty exemption before they start charging people duties. With VAT, there are two ways of doing it. One is that you pay it and get a form, and they refund it at the airport when you leave, as described above. The other is that they don't charge it and give you a different form, and you need to get the form stamped when they inspect your instrument on the way out, and you send the form or email a PDF of it back to the seller, which is what S&S does.
When I was in school, Buffet had a thing where if you went to Paris, bought a new clarinet, and brought it back, customs wouldn't let it in. I'm sure that went away a long time ago, but I don't know when or why. It gave me a lifetime loathing for the American pricing and distribution system.
If you go to London and have time, it's fun to try out mouthpieces at Ed Pillinger's and Peter Eaton's, though they're on opposite sides of the city, so hitting both takes all day.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
