 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-22 04:58
Who decides who playes 1st 2nd 3rd clarinet in your band?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-02-22 05:28
I've associated with four bands in recent years. The conductors (all different people) decided section placement. In my local community band I'm principal, and a couple times I made placement suggestions to the conductor; once he followed my advice, otherwise he didn't. I'm content with that system.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-22 18:39
If you are in an ensemble that is unpaid, with no tryouts and can't get failing grades, you may have to sometimes endure the worst players with high egos, grandiose delusions or deaf ears insisting on playing principal or the most exposed and difficult parts. And usually, the conductor will not hurt this person's feelings by moving them to a lower chair, where they can do less damage. Many times this player was very good in the distant past, but has since lost their chops and sounds like drowning puppies ... (ouch! I shouldn't have said that!)
The conductor may balance or try to mask out this situation by surrounding this bad apple with additional players on the same part.
We have some very good community bands in this area that have been around for decades. In one band, the conductor would just assign sections and you sat in your section where you wanted ... your exact spot varied from week to week. One really good player accidentally sat 2nd chair the first rehearsal but made it in late for the next practice and only found a spot, in the first section, at about 6th chair. He didn't return for the 3rd rehearsal. Of course, this guy had extra high ego and arrogance ... probably a good riddance.
The point is that if the players aren't somehow truly seated in respect to their ambitions and abilities, it gripes obviously better players, and they don't last long. I don't know what the solution is, other than tryouts for everyone ... and that ain't gonna happen in a volunteer group.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-02-22 19:02
How do you tell when you're the one who's lost chops and needs to move down (or out)?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kel
Date: 2015-02-22 20:32
I now play in a small community symphonic band with a challenging book. We have only three clarinets: a talented, accomplished amateur, a reedman/arranger who is a retired high school and amusement park musical director, and me. The other two defer to me because if I left one of them would be labeled the worst clarinet player in the group. I play 2nd.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-22 20:40
I don't know ... sometimes you are just so caught up in your past capabilities that you just don't see the evolving truth ... part of it can just be an aggressive, narcissistic personality that hasn't faded with age and abilities ...
I am an old dude too (almost 63) and I recognize that I'm down a bit (or maybe a byte) in playing ... but also know that as long as I am healthy, improvement is a possibility.
A reporter asked Pablo Casals why he continued to practice cello at the age of ninety, and the Maestro replied: "because I think I am making progress" ...
Situations like I've described really don't bug me personally too much, other than it drives good players away ... which, I guess, bugs everyone.
In one semi-professional ensemble that I play in intermittently, seating is determined by several factors including try outs, feedback from the principal clarinetist to the conductor and rotational seating, which I think is the best solution, if it's not truly a pro group.
It's all fun!
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-02-22 21:11
TomS wrote:
> I am an old dude too (almost 63)
Hey, watch it!
Karl (67)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gkern
Date: 2015-02-23 02:14
Hey Karl - give it 10 more years...
(3rd clarinet in 2 community bands and still enjoying it!)
Gary K
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-23 04:37
I've been too harsh in my last two posts ... we have some awesome Community Bands here and a couple of Community Orchestras, a semi-pro Wind Ensemble and Orchestra ... not to mention the flagship orchestra, The Arkansas Symphony.
One community band here is busting at the seams ... and are looking for a place to accommodate about 100 players! All implemented by unpaid volunteers, some that are highly trained or professional (a little rust) ... just doing it for love. In addition, summer bands spring up made of University staff, retreads, students and alumni.
So ... it's all wonderful ... plenty of outlets to make music ... and growing.
I guess if the country fell of the economic cliff, musicians could still find a way to continue, albeit not so much professionally.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2015-02-24 01:49
In the Wheaton Municipal Band which blurs the line between professional and community as it pays a little, there is a blind all sight reading audition held every year. I can't think of a more fair way to run a band that is as competitive as that group is. In 2013, I won the audition and in 2014 I didn't when I wasn't in as good shape. This system is just ingenious in that it is a true snapshot of what is going on in that moment and not on other reasons which ultimately weaken an ensemble.
I've been in all sorts of ensembles where it varied. The worst way I've ever seen it does was an ensemble where everyone just played whatever they wanted so you generally had majority firsts and little of the rest and sometimes solos were even played by all. It was a system blinders where were put on on musicianship and created a terrible situation. The group still exists but cycles through musicians like no ones business.
The best way I believe to manage a section after half a lifetime of experience is to have a strong section leader who plays principal on the most important half of the music. Then you take you're 2nd best to the 4th and alternate them by concerts and halves between assistant 1st, and principal second and third with a rotating opportunity to play principal in the lesser half of the concert rep. The rest of the section members are rotated between 2nd and 3rd to keep morale up, just like they rotate non titled string seats in pro orchestras. No 1st violin wants to be stuck behind a timpani all season. This allows the principal to also coach the others as leaders in the principal chair to develop leadership of the other acting principals.
I rarely ever advocate having more than two firsts in a volunteer group. The 2nd and 3rd need more support in a weaker projecting range. You can go on YouTube and hear countless bands with stretching firsts with no support underneath. If I had 15 clarinetists, I'd have an Eb, 2 1st, 4 2nd and 6 3rd and 2 basses.
In that model you keep the core stable through varying numbers. You keep the section in shape by alternating between 2nd and 3rd and you can identify potential leadership with in those members as well.
I don't believe in ever evaluating a musician in anything besides ability and track record. How else are you to determine? By age, gender, sexual orientation or race? That is illegal in the work place and should be in the band room too.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
Post Edited (2015-02-24 03:21)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: as9934
Date: 2015-02-24 02:39
Unfortunately my band director does. I swear he's got something against me because he keeps putting me on third parts even though he knows I'm better than most of the seconds and just as good as some of the firsts.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2015-02-24 03:00
Of the four bands I have played with over the past 35 years, all of them designate the musical director as responsible for all things musical - which includes who sits where. Usually, they designate that chore to the person they have designated principal for the section.
Most bands seem to work on a system with the best players on 1st, next best on 2nd, least skilled on 3rd. One band had auditions and then froze the two best players on first, put the worst players (or those who did not want to audition) on 3rd, and had the others choose either to be permanent 2nds or to rotate among the 3 sections. They went quite a long while between auditions.
The more enlightened principal players share solos with other people playing 1st parts. Many principal players are not enlightened.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
