 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-07-08 01:59
Well a Saxophone player in my marching concert band saw when her hard Alto Saxophone case came up the band and smashed down the way down in the baggage reclaim and the case was bent. Now she use a soft sided case and take the instrument with her into the plain.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-07-08 12:36
I heard this airline story from an eyewitness within days of the event: the security people told a violinist, travelling with her orchestra on an international tour, that she couldn't bring her extra strings into the cabin with her violin, because she could use the strings to strangle somebody. Well, okay, fiction writers have used violin strings as murder weapons in at least two murder mysteries, but doesn't this scenario seem just a tad farfetched?
A violinist must travel with spare strings the same way a clarinet player travels with more than one reed. Buying new strings at the destination is not a good option, because she might not be able to get her preferred brand on short notice and because violin strings need breaking in. They slip out of tune at first. These carefully broken-in violin strings don't belong in the cargo hold, because the temperature and pressure changes can alter the way they play. Seeing the argument in progress and the violinist in tears, the captain of the plane intervened. He took the violin strings into the cockpit with him and then gave them back to the violinist at the end of the flight.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-07-08 12:56
Not just United: My son had his cornetto (baroque cup mouthpiece instrument) stolen from his checked bag on JetBlue between Washington/Dulles and Boston. Airline turned a deaf ear to his complaint because he didn't file it in the 4-hour "golden" period.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-07-08 13:50
Since when do the airlines load the aircraft? It’s the ground handling teams that do that.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-07-08 13:53
aero145 wrote:
> Since when do the airlines load the aircraft? It’s the ground
> handling teams that do that.
Contracted by the airlines and the airlines are liable ... for what they think they're liable is the point ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-07-08 14:02
Yup, that’s correct. But aren’t the handling teams in a way liable. I mean, it is they who handle stuff badly, not the airlines that contract them…
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-07-08 14:05
aero145 wrote:
> Yup, that’s correct. But aren’t the handling teams in a way
> liable. I mean, it is they who handle stuff badly, not the
> airlines that contract them…
Not our problem - the airlines can go after them, but to us, it's all one happy company ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-07-08 14:50
Haha, I see. Good, in a way…
When travelling with my bassoon, and they don’t allow me to take it onboard (of course, what else could I do on a boring flight than hitting the stewardesses in the heads with my bell?!), should I request to leave it in the cockpit? Would that make sense of a passenger to ask?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-08 15:05
That is why I insist on my clarinets and any other like bass going on as hand luggage. I also have a document from the Dept of Transport in association with the (UK) Musicians Union permitting my instruments on the plane after the events of 9/11 and7/7.
Whilst in Tel Aviv airport waiting to check in after proving to the security that I and the rest of the group wern't Palestinian suicide bombers. The lady at the desk insisted that the bass clarinet had to be checked in to the hold. I wasn't amused as it had travelled safely with my Bb and A to the West Bank. Luckily everything was fine in the end.
I've seen quite a few instruments come crashing down the luggage carousels over the years.
The guitarists should have had them on as had luggage and caused a fuss if the airline refused.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-07-08 15:16
aero145 wrote:
> should I request to leave it in the cockpit? Would
> that make sense of a passenger to ask?
Every time I've travelled with my guitar I've asked for it to be put into either a coat closet or the cockpit (the larger planes have coat closets - or used to, anyway, that were tall enough for a guitar). I've been lucky most of the time. The few times I haven't been lucky I've stood on the gateway and handed my guitar in to the handlers at the last moment (LIFO - last in, first out, seems to be less damaging).
I don't travel so much with my guitar anymore :(
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-07-08 15:43
>
> Whilst in Tel Aviv airport waiting to check in after proving to
> the security that I and the rest of the group wern't
> Palestinian suicide bombers. The lady at the desk insisted that
> the bass clarinet had to be checked in to the hold. I wasn't
> amused as it had travelled safely with my Bb and A to the West
> Bank. Luckily everything was fine in the end.
Traveled from Tel Aviv to the West Bank? I didn't know that there is an airport in the West Bank....Which orchestra was it? Only the Divan could do such thing, were you at the Divan?
Very often Airlines from Europe and the US have special demands for security in Israel and people think that it is the Israeli government who demands that. The best way to travel to Israel is with EL AL - their securuty is very elegant and quite- because they look very carfuly at the body language instead of the suitcases. And, of course, they have the best pilots :-)
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-08 18:14
I was working with a London group called the Choir of London. We flew to Tel Aviv and then took a coach to Ramallah where we were based. We gave 3 performances of La Boheme in a reduced orchestral version by Jonathan Dove (those of you who don't know his music should check out his wind octet Figures in the Garden). We also gave 3 performances of Brahms' German Requiem and Mendelsshon's 1st Piano Concerto with Seleem Aboud Asshkar(sp) who is playing at this years Proms. We performed in Ramallah, Nablus, Bethlehem and Jerusalem.
Sarah wrote,
"Very often Airlines from Europe and the US have special demands for security in Israel and people think that it is the Israeli government who demands that. The best way to travel to Israel is with EL AL - their securuty is very elegant and quite- because they look very carfuly at the body language instead of the suitcases. And, of course, they have the best pilots :-)"
This wasn't the case with us, we where singled out because we were a group of 27, half of the company and taking the 2nd flight back to London. We had everything checked and 3 people were singled out and interrogated about our 2 week tour. All our luggage etc was searched. Quite a strange experience I must say, though Israel/Palestine is a wonderful country and I hope the Situation gets sorted. We showed through our concerts that everyone can make music together regardless of race or religion. I was quite moved by all of this.
Apologies Mark, GBK for the slight political slant, please feel free to edit if required.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-07-08 19:09
cigleris wrote:
> I was working with a London group called the Choir of London.
> We flew to Tel Aviv and then took a coach to Ramallah where we
> were based. We gave 3 performances of La Boheme in a reduced
> orchestral version by Jonathan Dove (those of you who don't
> know his music should check out his wind octet Figures in the
> Garden). We also gave 3 performances of Brahms' German Requiem
> and Mendelsshon's 1st Piano Concerto with Seleem Aboud
> Asshkar(sp) who is playing at this years Proms. We performed in
> Ramallah, Nablus, Bethlehem and Jerusalem.
Saleem Abud is one of Barenboims people, he is from Nazerat. So it was connected to Divan. Pity that your concerts were ONLY on the Palestinien side. I suppose that you didn't give a concert in Sderot (Israel)because it was to dangerus.
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-08 19:41
Sarah,
Who organised the tour was nothing to do with me, I was just asked to play. Saleem is a wonderful pianist and a funny guy. We're going to meet up and have a drink in London when he performs. I'd happily perform in Israel.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: timg
Date: 2009-07-11 11:01
David Carroll reports that United Airlines have now offered to compensate him, 15 months after the original incident ... and 3 days after Carroll became an internet sensation with his song. So the question we ask ourselves is, "Am I famous enough to risk flying with United?"
In fact I don't believe that any of the airlines don't give a damn how their passengers' bags are treated. On my travels I've had the opportunity to compare the damage inflicted by US baggage inspectors, and the destructive power of angry yak. The yak loses, as it doesn't open the bag before running rampage.
Heaving the subject back round to clarinets: does anybody know of a clarinet case which qualifies as hand baggage, and also has enough space for an SLR camera? Carrying two separate bags falls foul of UK airport rules, even if within the other limits.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-07-11 14:02
Lelia Loban said that a violinist was told that she could use the strings to strangle somebody but in 2006 I was traveling from Frankfurt to Iceland with my windband and at that time I carried a Swiss army knife(with screw driver, cane opener etc.) in my pocket to use to alter my reeds. Well I had forgot to put it in my suitcase so I was asked at the security control if they could look in my clarinet case. They did and found the pocket with the knive,reeds,metronome etc. and I thought oh now I've lost the knife for good. But no he measured the blade and it must be around 7-8 cm long and said ok and handed it back to me.
Couldn't I kill someone as easily with that sort of tool as I could use violin strings to strangle people?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nahoj
Date: 2009-07-13 17:42
I once carried a paperclip contrabass clarinet as hand luggage on two connecting US Airways flights, with no one saying anything, except the check-in desk lady who said I'd have to gate-check it and the crew of the second flight who curiously asked 'now what ìs that thing?' when I left the plane. :-)
I guess I was lucky.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-07-13 18:10
Lelia wrote:
>> I heard this airline story from an eyewitness within days of the event: the security people told a violinist, travelling with her orchestra on an international tour, that she couldn't bring her extra strings into the cabin with her violin, because she could use the strings to strangle somebody.>>
I think the eyewitness was me -- no? -- in which case, you're slightly misremembering: it was a 'cellist, and a PERIOD 'cellist at that, so the gut strings were even more valuable, and would have been even harder to get replacements for.
(I suppose the longer 'cello strings make the security people's case fractionally more plausible....)
>> Seeing the argument in progress and the violinist in tears, the captain of the plane intervened. He took the violin strings into the cockpit with him and then gave them back to the violinist at the end of the flight.>>
It was in fact worse than that; the security people had insisted on confiscating the strings, and the 'cellist had had to proceed to the plane without them; she was there seen to be in tears by the captain, who WENT BACK to security personally in order to retrieve them.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2009-07-13 21:24
I was about to say that, nahoj.
I travel a lot and you can always gate check baggage. This does not allow it to go to the belts, as you get it as soon as you get off the plane (i.e. you get it while still on the walkway). I've done this with sensitive baggage before and it has never failed me. It should be able to withstand variations in temperature and pressure, though.
I've heard of people asking the flight attendants to put something in the cockpit but you have to get past security first. Not sure if this is really viable. If you choose to do this, make sure you ask the person at the ticket counter.
There really isn't a good way to get around security with instrumental necessities and, to add to the confusion, it can vary from airport to airport. One TSA officer's opinion may differ from another. It may not supposed to vary but it does.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-07-14 05:16
If Sarah is right and Israeli security checks by looking at body language then I guess their stairs are so dangerous so they managed to ruin beyond repair a specially made instrument for a trumpeter a couple of years ago.
I never had problems so far even with my instrument but I'm good at ignoring them and not looking suspicious. But I know of many others stories too.... and I don't agree with Sarah about them at all.
Peter's experience doesn't sound strange to me and compared with some cases it is mild. I don't see anything in his post that suggested any discremination between Israel and Palestine.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-07-14 10:47
Nitai,
Your post is a little naive. Let me remind you that you are living in Jerusalem and your life are relativly quite only because there is a wall around Jerusalem. Only 4-5 years ago we lived in Hell and people blew up in the streets twice a day.
There are people around the world who make alot of money from the Israeli Palestinien conflict. And they are interested that the conflict will not stop. ( this has nothing to do with the Barenboim project, of course).
Some of them are cynical enough to sent people such as Peter to play concerts for "Peace". They use them for fund raising and propaganda.
The money that they get is not used for education- this money is landing in our backyards as a rocket.
My point to Peter- who didn't know who sent him to the West Bank- is to check what is behind the "concert" and why the Peace mission is only in the
Palestinien side and not in both sides...
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-14 11:15
Sarah,
I experienced somethings and had some interesting discussions with various people whilst I was in the West Bank but here is not the place for those sorts of political discussions.
As I said I went with the Choir of London - so I do know who sent me - there was no agenda other than giving concerts and masterclasses. We went with the help of Al Kamandjati and various other cultural organisations. The Choir of London have undertaken these tours in the past including one during the time you mention. Would they put themselves in danger for the sake of an agenda? I don't think so.
These concerts and opera performances were purely concerts and opera performances. Nothing more nothing less. They were not concerts for 'Peace'. I think you may have mis-quoted me there.
These concerts had nothing at all to do with Barenbiom and Divan. Just because Saleem worked with us please don't assume this. I'm sure his performances with us were warm ups for his Prom concert in September.
What ever money was raised will go to helping Palestians gain the musical education they rightly deserve. No one, where ever they are in the world should be denied that right.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2009-07-14 13:48
In the US, musicians can take an instrument and a regulation sized carry-on onto the plane. Take a copy of the AFM/TSA agreement with you (http://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/faq_images/TSALetter.pdf) in case you run into a disagreeable employee. This letter just gets you through TSA checkpoints - the airlines have the final say on whether or not to allow it on board. To avoid extra hassle, I would put everything that could be questionable into my checked baggage (bottled cork grease, oil, reed knives, lighter, etc.) The fewer items that security has to check out, the better.
For more info, the TSA has an article about musicians travelling with instruments on their website: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1235.shtm.
Hope this was helpful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-07-14 17:50
Peter,
I agree that this is not the place for a political debate.
This is a link for the Palestinien Sesame Street, it can give you an udea what am I talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2J3my3pOIc
Needless to say that Tel Aviv was only sand and sand 100 years ago.
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-07-14 18:23
Two Wolves
An old Cherokee chief is teaching his grandchild about life:
"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the kid. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.
"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.
"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.
"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandchild thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "which wolf will win?"
The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nahoj
Date: 2009-07-22 17:43
I want to add that gate-checking isn't necessarily 100% safe: getting off a plane usually takes some time (small alley, door, people in front of you, getting their hand-luggage,...) and in that time they may have already begun unloading the luggage below. They do that with transport bands from the plane to the luggage-'trains', that end 1-2m above the ground. The first pieces (gate-checked pieces can be first as they probably have been put in last) are sometimes not met in time by ground personnel and crash to the tarmac. I've witnessed this several times.
But it reduces the risk for sure by avoiding the belt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-07-22 18:25
Tony, thanks for correcting my faulty memory of that incident. As you say -- it was worse than I thought. A cello string was the murder weapon in a mystery novel by Israeli writer Batya Gur, btw. Maybe the security people had read it....
(The book is "Murder Duet: A Musical Case," set in Israel, featuring detective Michael Ohayon. Maybe it suffered from a bad translation. I didn't finish reading it and can't remember much about it, but it had to do with child adoptions gone wrong and was too heavy on the psychobabble and the soap opera and too light on the plot for me. I prefer puzzle plots. So, I read about half of it during Kevin's piano quintet practice and then gave it to the cellist's wife, because she'd read and loved other books by Gur. But I did get as far as the part where the cello string was found guilty.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
