 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenericClarinet129
Date: 2024-11-29 17:48
I have been using a Rovner Dark ligature for a decently long time. It holds the reed well, but the articulation and response are somewhat stuffy, and I need to completely reset the reed and ligature whenever I adjust the mouthpiece, so I am in the market for a new ligature. Please do not respond that I should not buy a ligature because they are unimportant, do not affect sound, etc. or that I should spend my money on other, more important things. I already have a good mouthpiece (Vandoren M30), a good clarinet (Uebel Reve), and take regular lessons, and I practice as much as I have time for. I use Legere European cut reeds. I thought I had narrowed it down to the Vandoren Optimum, but then I heard about a few other people that use Legere reeds for whom the Optimum did not function (it was an issue about the ligature not tightening enough, I believe). Does this problem really exist? I am also considering the BG Duo. Does anybody have any experience with that one; if so, how well does it work with Legere reeds? Are there any other ligatures that are similar to those that work especially well with Legeres? I am opposed to purchasing another Rovner, and I don't really have time to assemble a ligature out of string or velcro every time I take out my clarinet.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-11-29 17:58
I found the Vandoren Optimum to be too slippery with Legere reeds. It kept coming off when I had to change clarinets.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
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Author: Burt
Date: 2024-11-29 18:18
I use a Luyben ligature with M30 and Legere Euro 3.5.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-11-29 18:38
GenericClarinet129 wrote:
> I have been using a Rovner Dark ligature for a decently long
> time. It holds the reed well, but the articulation and response
> are somewhat stuffy, and I need to completely reset the reed
> and ligature whenever I adjust the mouthpiece,
Can you tighten the Rovner more to have it hold in place more securely?
> I thought I had narrowed it down to the
> Vandoren Optimum, but then I heard about a few other people
> that use Legere reeds for whom the Optimum did not function (it
> was an issue about the ligature not tightening enough, I
> believe). Does this problem really exist?
This is a problem that, in my experience, tends to happen with some ligatures on specific mouthpieces made from narrower blanks. When I was experimenting with Legeres a few years ago, I used the same Bonade inverted ligature that I still use on cane reeds, but because the Legeres are thin compared to many cane reeds, especially thick-blank ones like V.12, V21 and 56 Rue Lepic, I had to put a mouthpiece patch on the back of the mouthpiece to give *it* more girth to spread the ligature a little. I do the same when I use Vandoren traditionals, which are also thin.
Vandoren mouthpieces in general are moderately large in girth compared to other mouthpieces I've tried. It may not be a problem with your M30.
I think I also used an Optimum lig with the Legeres, also with the rubber patch on the back of the mouthpiece. I still bounce back and forth between Bonade and Optimum, some days liking one better and other days preferring the other. They both work well.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-11-29 20:06
I think the Luyben is a good choice to consider. They are good ligatures and relatively inexpensive. They also hold very well.
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2024-11-29 20:38
I also sometimes used a Luyben ligature on a VD M30 (Lyre) mouthpiece with the Legere Euro cut reeds. I have used Rovner Dark and Light ligs, but find the Luyben gives a cleaner sound and better articulation. But I also find that I often have to reset the reed if I adjust the mouthpiece, and sometimes the Luyben lig slips off when adjusting the mouthpiece.
Another recent find was a Syos 3D printed slip-fit ligature. The one I have is for my alto clarinet but they are available for Bb sopranos also. The design easily fits most mouthpieces. I find that it produces very nice sound and is very responsive with synthetic reeds. It sometimes requires adjusting the reed placement after adjusting the mouthpiece, but it is very much easier and quicker to adjust than ligatures with screws. Mountng the reed is a breeze compared to anything with a screw.
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Author: RBlack
Date: 2024-11-29 21:14
For me, the BG duo has been the most secure ligature I’ve tried with legeres, so it works very well for switching between Bb/A without all falling apart.
These days the Ishimori Kodama 2 is my favorite in terms of how it plays, but it isn’t all that secure in comparison to others I’ve used.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-11-30 19:29
Sorry I'm late to this one. You already own one of the very best ligatures for Legere (or any reed)!
Take the Rovner dark and just flip it so that the screw is on the left side and the ligature tightens OVER the reed. You'll be amazed at what a difference this makes. Once convinced, just flip the rods so that it's back to having the screw on the right side.
Yes I agree that the Optimum (with the four dot plate) is also one of the best as well. However, with the thin (up and down thin that is) Legeres, I use the German mouthpiece sized Optimum.
https://www.thomannmusic.com/vandoren_optimum_ligature_bb_german_sp.htm
Of course I add a shim cut from a plastic ligature cap or pill bottle when the ligatures themselves are too big for the Legere combo.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2024-11-30 23:20
Paul,
I agree with your suggestions about the Rovner Dark ligature. I have never been a real fan of this ligature as it always seemed to restrict the sound. Interestingly, I received a Rovner Dark with a 10K 3L that Clark Fobes sent me and it played much better. The difference was HIS had no stitches on the flaps around the pins, it was only glued.
As I'm always testing things, several months ago I tried the new Legere French Cut reeds as well as the current version of the European Cut reeds. As the Legeres are picky about ligatures I tried some experiments. One of which was to turn the Rovner Dark's screw around to use it in the "pins-on-the-reed" position. The ligature still worked fine with the Legeres and its performance for all reeds was vastly better: less resistance, better response, and a freer/rounder sound.
However, I got an even better result with the Rovner Star Series ligature in the "pins-on-reed" position. IMHO, I find this ligature to be superior to the Dark because of the much thinner fabric (and the lower price!).
I know this will sound heretical to those (like me) who agree with Bonade that pressing the reed against the mouthpiece along the spine of the bark should allow the reed to vibrate better, but I find that for both cane and synthetic reeds, using the Rovner Dark and Star Series ligatures in the "pins-on-reed" configuration seems to yield just as free/vibrant a sound, but also one that is rounder as well. After some thought, I believe that this is because the reed is held primarily by the edges, yet suffers no loss of vibrancy. Go figure.
Anyway, for me, the Rovner Star Series in the reversed position plays better for cane/synthetic reeds than any of the ligatures I have been able to afford.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-12-01 01:57
Absolutely! The Star is another great ligature.....used inverted from its intended orientation. I found this as I have been experimenting with turning as many "inverted" ligatures around as I can and saw someone in a community band playing one of these. Naturally I did a quick search of images and found this review which basically says the same thing:
https://www.saxnoir.com/site/?p=1537
I have one now and love it as well.
I am not sold on the idea of grip on the edges as much as an even hold on the reed itself. I have many different materials and weights of ligatures and the ONLY thing the best working models have in common is an even grip on the reed itself. It turns out you can't predict how well an inverted model holds because you are dealing with the cone shape of the mouthpiece as the aggravating factor. If you grab evenly across the TOP of the mouthpiece there is still no way to be sure what points along the reed are snug. Though I do have an inverted woven ligature by Vientos Bambu that works great, I feel that this is an accident of the shape being a good match for the angle of the cone that is created by the thin Legeres and the thin mouthpieces that I use.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: GenericClarinet129
Date: 2024-12-01 06:49
Paul and Bob,
Thanks for your advice about the pins-on-the-reed position!
I tried un-inverting the Rovner Dark. Surprisingly, I did not notice a significant difference (although it was a little better than the default position). It might be something about my personal setup and embouchure, or I might just not be perceiving it. However, I did some experimenting, and I found that placing the ligature in the normal inverted position but extremely far down on the mouthpiece (so far down that part of it was on the barrel) while tightening it enough to still hold the reed securely makes a severely positive difference in the response and tone. This might not be effective for your specific setups, but it strangely seems to work wonders for me.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-12-01 16:02
You may try changing ligature position and tension which I find to be somewhat critical. For me, tightening the reed down too snug will choke off the sound. I'd recommend anything from "loose" to the point where the reed will move a bit from side to side with a modicum of effort. Also, the "bullet proof" ligature position that will work no matter what is lining the top edge with a point just a hair below the bottom edge of the window (which you can see through the reed). Experiment with this position through about 2mm below. If the reed is working great, you can go as low as the line of ligature and get even more resonance.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-12-05 08:41
Currently using a flexitone in bronze or silver. I found that rovners imo need to be fitted so they hold the end firmly by either rotating them towards the end of the reeds or as u say sliding them down. My belief is that if the end is not held there is much greater variance in how the reeds play as they can move towards the facing of the mouthpice. Flexitone has less mass and I like the tone of the materials e.g bronze/silver. Moderate grip on mpiece, not great
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2024-12-06 01:54
I understand the plight!
I converted to Legere years ago. Loved the EuroCut, and love the French Cut even more. I use Legere on all saxophones and clarinets, and ALL with Rovner Dark Ligatures. I have boxes full of cheap to expensive ligatures. Most don’t work, and depending on the mouthpiece, some fails are funny. I sat in the pit for Bernstein’s West Side Story - Bb, A, Eb and Bass Clarinet. I was using Vandoren Optimum at the time, and while playing, out the corner of my eye - I notice movement on my Eb. Suddenly the Optimum pops off the Eb, into the air, and I quickly reacted and caught it midair with my left hand! I slapped it back on, and got it adjusted before my next entrance, but noticed I could easily remove them, no matter how tight. Through trial and error, I have settled on the Rovner Dark as a necessary evil in my playing.
As far as equipment, the mouthpieces on all clarinets are Behn Epic mouthpieces, and, as said, Legere French Cut on Eb, Bb and A. Euro Cut on Bass, but probably not for long. I’ve recently sold off all my Buffet clarinets except the Eb. Also gone are my Selmer 10G matched set, and several Selmer 10 series Bb clarinets. Also sold off a couple Leblancs. My current sets of clarinets - matched set Bb/A Uebel Reve Mopane Wood clarinets. Lovely things! Also, a matched set Ridenour Aurea Bb/A, a second Aurea Bb, and 2 Ridenour Lyrique Bb’s with slightly larger bore, customized by Tom Ridenour. Also playing a Ridenour 925SC Low C Bass. I love the Uebels, but also love the Ridenours. Depends on the venue.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2024-12-08 22:21
My suggestion: Vandoren string ligature, i.e. "Klassik"
https://vandoren.fr/en/clarinet-ligatures/
I find that it works great with all reeds but particularly well with Legere reeds. Some players think it does not hold the reed securely enough but I beg to differ. I have never run into any problems with secure tightening using my Klassik.
As you know, this ligature is a modern-day take on the the very old (German) way of securing a reed to a clarinet mouthpiece, a string. I played for a summer many decades ago in Austria and learned the technique of tying a string ligature from some of the guys in the Vienna Symphony.
I used for a long time with a shoelace that I still keep in my case. Tying a string ligature is easier (and faster) than most people think. The Vandoren Klassik has the same "feel / response" as a string, which I quite like.
Paul Globus
Montreal, Canada
Post Edited (2024-12-08 22:22)
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2024-12-13 18:47
no one has mentioned the BG "revelation" models. fabric/leather lig like the rovner dark but with metal rails that run up and down the reed, holding it firmly on the table.
i don't subscribe to much of the ligature mumbo jumbo, just this one is quick to use and adjust, secure once fastened, fits any combination of reed & mp, and won't break the bank.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-12-13 20:29
the bg revelation dosnt hold the reed firm enough and plastic reeds will slip. too bad luyben dosnt make a bass clarinet size lig. the best plastic bass lig i have found is the ed Piera 3d printed for using legere
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-12-14 03:13
I use the BG Revelation with Legere reeds on bass. I agree that the reeds can move, although that’s also true with cane, albeit not quite as much. But I have not yet had any problems with the BG and Legere reeds, so I would stick with it.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2024-12-14 11:38
I have been using Yany sixs by Yanagisawa. Worth trying, if you search for brighter sound. But you must use cork grease very frequently...
With legeres it's very important that the reed doesn't move by accident. It changes the reed so dramatically.
I believe that most people change from cane to legeres because of unwanted upper partials in sound, which at least for me was the most usual reason to discard a cane reeds. And legeres are darker, not so much upper partials. But after a while a dark sound starts to feel boring. That's why ligature is so important with legeres, how it encourages and shapes the upper partials.
And finding a mouthpiece that suits the reed. Not vice versa, as with cane reeds. But that's another story!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2024-12-16 13:44
I use only Légère reeds and did have trouble at first with them moving under the Vandoren Optimum ligature I had used before with cane. And ligatures with a raised portion to fit a cane reed were impossible. Problem solved when I switched to a Luyben for Bb soprano with a Légère French Cut reed.
Oddly enough the Optimum lig for Bb bass works well on the Selmer mp and is easier to adjust than the Selmer lig that came with it, using a Légère bass European Cut reed.
Finally for the Eb alto clarinet, the one I play the most, I don't seem to have as much choice but the classic 2-screw Selmer lig on the Selmer alto mp (no model indicated) works fine with a Légère Tenor sax French Cut reed so I'm staying with that.
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