 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ejn6
Date: 2024-08-28 17:11
Hi there,
I've trawled through quite a few posts from previous years where some or all of these bass clarinet models come up in discussion but not would perhaps be the best pick out of the lot.
I am looking for a bass clarinet as a doubler - I cannot justify ever spending the money on a pro model bass as it simply wouldn't get enough use. In my country, the only options available in the music stores (listed from most to least expensive student models) are:
Buffet BC1180
Yamaha YCL221
Jupiter JBC1000N
Selmer 1430LP
I've tried a YCL221II before - agree with a lot of the comments I found on here that it ran a bit sharp and was a bit stuffy in the upper register (but other comments also suggested this is a recurring theme with student model bass clarinets) and the register key mechanism was quite sluggish/not that responsive.
The second-hand market is slim to none for bass clarinets in my region and I live a long way from the nearest town that would have all of the above in stock across the different music stores to try them out so that rules out those ideas (i.e. buy a pro model second-hand bass or try before you buy).
Is the BC1180 worth the higher price tag for the fact that it is made out of wood? I've read some less-than-favourable reviews (but I guess anything is going to be nowhere near as good when vs the 1183 or 1193 that Buffet make). Also, would anyone consider one of these to have better/the best octave mechanism design? It seems like a lot of people complain about this aspect of the beginner models vs the pro models.
I would love to hear your thoughts on the above models vs each other (pros/cons). I know there are other options out there but the cost of shipping from overseas means I'm really limited to the above options.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2024-08-28 17:58
Let me tell you something,
the Buffet "Student" or BC1180 is not worth the money - at that price point a single register mechanism is a bad joke, as well as no particular other qualities. An acquaitance of mine bought one and she couldn't have found a worse way of spending her money, given there's basses like the royal max and others available today.
Yes, I've tried her BC1180 and was less than impressed. Even the basic ABS low C basses you can find under so many different brand names are better, in my opinion, except for the keywork, which is of course much sturdier on the Buffet. Still, not worth it.
What region are you based in? I'd really advise not to buy these cheap low Eb basses, as you could just as well look for a serviced bundy/ noblet and get almost the same result. Sorry for the harsh words, but ebonite/abs low eb basses haven't really been developed any further for a long time now, and it shows.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: ejn6
Date: 2024-08-29 04:05
Thanks Christian, I really appreciate your reply. It seems crazy to me that after all these years, and all the posts I see of people saying how terrible that single register mechanism is, they still don't make some better for the student models (nothing like making it harder for a beginner/forcing people to buy something x4 the price for a pro model when they are just a doubler!).
I am in New Zealand. RRP in NZ for a Prestige for example is around $24,000! Pro-model second-hand basses don't really come up a lot here. Any suggestions on some sites to look at for second-hand basses that would be a better option to buy (e.g. a woodwind shop that services and sells second-hand ones)? International shipping rates to NZ aren't exactly favourable either sadly!
Any suggestions much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Emma
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2024-08-29 10:18
With the Buffet, it's not just the lack of a better register mechanism, you also have to live with no tuning slide! Buffet has indeed neglected BCs for years, but luckily there's some new alternatives
Your best bet would be to try and find a Backun dealer (of which there should be a few in NZ) and ask them, if you can in some way preorder the Alpha bass. Alternatively, ask Michael Lowenstern at Earspasm about shipping to NZ.
When ordering from Thomann, the shipping rate to NZ seems surprisingly low, maybe their synthetic "BCL-C" would suit you? In fact, I'm testing this instrument in a few days and will write a few words about it on this board, though I sadly can't directly compare it to the Max or Alpha. I'd assume these are still the best synthetic BCs.
Regarding used basses: Generally, you'd have to be quite lucky to find in good condition AND good repair. There's nothing worse than a poorly setup BC that doesn't seal properly. For this reason alone I'd recommend a new Instrument. I've seen a number of different Bundy/Noblet etc. basses and altos that were in terrible shape, sold at like 600-800€ when taking it to a decent repair person would still cost you at least the same amount! Same goes for older Selmer/ Buffet basses: they might've never seen any extensive work and when you buy them, even as being "recently serviced", who's to say a spring won't suddenly snap?
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-08-29 10:30
ejn6 wrote:
"...I am in New Zealand. RRP in NZ for a Prestige for example is around $24,000! Pro-model second-hand basses don't really come up a lot here. Any suggestions on some sites to look at for second-hand basses that would be a better option to buy (e.g. a woodwind shop that services and sells second-hand ones)? International shipping rates to NZ aren't exactly favourable either sadly!
Any suggestions much appreciated."
You can find a lot of instruments (used and new) in large cities like Paris or Madrid.
If you are considering a vacation in Europe, maybe you can wait until you get there. In EU, you will save about 20% on the price of a new instrument. No savings on a used one.
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Author: ejn6
Date: 2024-08-29 15:16
@Kalashnikirby Thanks so much for your reply. Good to know even more reasons to steer clear of the Buffet BCs.
I had completely forgotten about Backun being an option. There are two dealers for them in NZ but neither carries bass clarinet stock. I will contact them though and see if they can get them to find out prices and availability etc.
When I checked out Thomann it was roughly $245 NZD to ship to where I live (Pounds vs NZD conversion is not great haha) vs locally I'd pay maybe $30 NZD, sometimes $0. But again gives me something else to consider looking into more if I can't source anything locally.
And yes, I had been thinking on the same wavelength about second-hand basses which is why I was limiting my search to what I could access new; especially with not being able to view/try before buying (I just thought mayyyyybe there was somewhere overseas I didn't know about that did do full overhauls and onsell basses - there is a place here that will sell a bit of stuff second hand that have been trade-ins and they fully service something before reselling - but basses never come up).
@m1964 that sounds lovely! Unfortunately coming to Europe isn't on the cards anytime soon - flights alone would be the same or more than these BC options!
Appreciate all the suggestions and advice.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-08-29 16:06
Be very careful WHO you buy a 2nd hand bass from if you are relying on them "fully servicing" it. Here in NZ there are a few good repair shops, and a couple who quite clearly don't have the expertise required. This guy in the Waikato (who claims to be an experienced/professional musician), for instance, sold a "fully serviced" 2nd hand bass clarinet to someone a year or so back. That instrument needed over $1,000 of work to get it operational. A shop here in Ak rents a bass to one of my students, it is in bad condition despite overhauls/repairs and when something goes wrong, the repairs from the shop aren't much better than the first aid I can do in lessons.
Instrument repairs in NZ have no regulating/accrediting body so basically anyone can "just do it". At least 50% of the people claiming they do repairs here are barely competent. Be warned.
Vanguard, KBB, Maurice Reviol can all be trusted.
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Author: ejn6
Date: 2024-08-29 16:27
@Donald thanks heaps for the warning. I've seen some shockers in terms of even just basic servicing here too. I always use Vanguard for servicing and repairs. I just thought I'd put it out there in case there was some gem of a place (I was thinking overseas not here) that was reputable and where perhaps basses might pop up more frequently that I wasn't aware of as well as actually looking for something new - which is probably as you and others have said the better road to be heading down though anyway for a BC than second hand.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-08-29 22:23
The Buffet is somewhat better made than the others you mentioned, but that doesn't really make a huge difference to how they play. As others wrote, it's still a plain student model that is not a very good value.
>> Vanguard, KBB, Maurice Reviol can all be trusted. <<
Not familiar with all of them, but Jennifer at KBB and Maurice should be good (maybe others at KBB are also good, I just don't know them).
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Author: RBlack
Date: 2024-08-30 04:48
The Yamaha is LEAGUES better than the Jupiter, which is again better than the Selmer. I have no experience with the Buffet, but I would definitely not suggest the student Selmer to anybody in my life.
In my opinion…
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-08-30 06:48
i have an old bundy as my beater horn and it does the job ok. the best bargins in used basses is still the leblanc! wood for plastic $$. i have 2 and they are perfectly fine unless you want to get really serious about BASS playing. what the leblanc has over the noblet is more room for tunning! otherwise these are pretty much the same horns. extermly durable and well made also.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-08-31 05:26
IMO I would agree with many of the above. There are some very spotty repairers out there. The problem is they work on second hand and new instruments. Added is that most bass clarinets require significant set - up from the factory. Basses to low C more so. Resulting in new and second hand instruments that often do not play well.
IMO There are some great bargains to be had in the Leblanc space. The esprit, leblancs and noblets. Like many horns the price second hand is starting to spiral upwards. Happy hunting.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2024-09-01 00:16
Well, I've tested the Thomann BCL-C now - it's surprisingly good. I can only guess as to how it'd compare to the max, but it's definitly not plastic, nor ebonite, so is it a composite similar to the max?
Either way, keywork, sound and Intonation seem really good. Sounds almost as good (if not, in a way, better) than my Leblanc 430S, certainly much easier to play. The keywork layout is a bit worse than. As with many BCs, the spring tension is a little high and should be regulated, but most, if not all pads were seated well and the instrument seals well, but I didn't adjust it for all the lower notes, maybe there's room for some improvement. I'll try to write a more detailed review some day.
For now, all I can say is, for the money, it's a steal. If you can't find anything else in NZ, I'd take the plunge and buy it.
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Author: ejn6
Date: 2024-09-02 15:40
Thanks heaps for all the posts - I really appreciate all the responses and time you've taken to share your experiences with different models. Has anyone had a chance to try the new Backun Alpha C or Low Eb models? I know they are pretty new to the market - reviews seem to be pretty favourable so far and they don't appear to have that typical student-style register key setup (but definitely correct me if I'm wrong!).
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-09-02 23:44
ejn6, the reviews so far of the Alpha has been from those who have tried out prototypes or pre-production specimens. A vendor here in Sweden is scheduled to get their first Q basses in October, and their first Alphas in December. Probably others in the US will get theirs earlier, and I'm quite sure there are contributors on this forum who either already have ordered an Alpha, or have signed up for a trial. They will surely write here, as soon as they get their hands on these basses. I myself may get to try out the Q in October.
Post Edited (2024-09-02 23:46)
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Author: ejn6
Date: 2024-09-03 03:49
@Micke Isotalo thanks heaps for that. I'll keep an eye out for more information as people get their hands on one and share their views on it.
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