 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: xingfan1227
Date: 2009-09-03 03:13
Let's say we are playing two notes: low E and altissimo D (on a Bb clarinet). If we don't increase or decrease the embouchure pressure, then how do the tongue positions of the two compare?
For instance, I suppose the back to back-middle of the tongue (basically parts behind the molar teeth) stay high.
But as it stays high, does it move forward and backward for the two notes?
And does the front 1/3 of the tongue change shape to direct the air stream differently? If so, how does it change for the two notes?
I'm asking because I've always thought that the front 1/3 of the tongue should raise a bit higher for the higher notes, however recently I've found that for the higher notes, if I drop the front 1/3 of the tongue a little bit to make it arch up, while push the entire tongue forward (but still stays high on the back), it makes it easier. But I'm not sure whether that's the right thing to do.
Tianlai
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-03 12:44
For me the voicing of most everything resembles saying the sound "EEEE." There may be a slight change, but it is not really on a conscious level, so I wouldn't recommend doing so.
How would you play the second of Stravinsky's "Three Pieces" if your tongue were doing all those gymnastics?
Just avoid saying "AHHH" at ALL costs since this in fact pushes the back of the tungue into the throat ....... quite the opposite of what many think when they say "open throat."
................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-09-03 14:05
Here's a link to an interesting article on this subject:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2005/05/000454.txt
There have been many previous discussions on this topic. One can go nuts worrying about tongue position(s) and voicing notes. David Pino, in his book The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing, advocates keeping the tongue low and forward at all times. Many others, though, suggest keeping the tongue high in the mouth. I never really thought about it much until recently when I realized that my approach is like Pino's.
Post Edited (2009-09-03 14:06)
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Author: William
Date: 2009-09-03 14:43
A couple of ideas regarding "voicing". Many years ago, Tom Ridenour talked to me about configuring the back of your tongue as if imitating a cats hiss. He said this focuses and accelorates your air stream towards the mouthpiece making tone production more efficient. It is a variation on the "E" or "raised tongue" concept commonly suggested to aide the upper register, but is really meant to include the entire range of tone production. It simply gives your breath support more impact where it is needed most, at the tip of the mouthpiece and reed.
Another thing regarding "voicing" is, although I am a single lip player, I try to use a double lip "feel" to give my sound more resonance or substance. I usually describe it as "getting the upper lip more involved in supporting the reed" or relying less on lower jaw "bite" and more lip support in general. As a result, my tone quality is enhanced, more projection is present and there I have more control over individual note intonation. This embouchure adjustment was also advocated by Charles Neidich during a clinic presentation to UW clarinet students given some years ago here in Madison. These are both old ideas about voicing, but are worth a new try. Hope this helps a bit......
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-03 16:03
Yes, the double lip (more upper lip/single lip embouchure) is key to good support.
The 'cat hiss' position is very interesting. For the most part I play on Yamaha CSG and Buffet R13 horns. I have let my tongue stay down and find that when playing on Leblanc Concerto and Selmer horns, the pianissimos choke off without this 'cat hiss' position. Perhaps it is better overall but doubly necessary for some particular horns.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: xingfan1227
Date: 2009-09-03 16:16
What exactly is the difference between "cat hiss" and EEEE positions? I read about it on Ridenour's book, too, but didn't quite idea.
Also William, I made a similar change on my embouchure recently, too. I keep my jaw positions the same throughout the registers, but snug the clarinet tighter where support comes from the right-hand thumb for high registers. It was very helpful in terms of tone (the high register/altissimo speak better), security, as well as for my lip (before when I used to bite a lot, my lip really hurt after playing for a while), and length of playing time. I feel that now I can almost cover almost all the notes without the changing of jaw pressure.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-09-03 20:30
xingfan1227, try an experiment: First, play the low E and cultivte the sound and LISTEN until you are absolutely happy with the way it sounds. Then do the same thing with the altissimo D and LISTEN until you play it with a full confident and free sound exactly the way you want it to sound.
When you have done this, please tell us what your EAR told your tongue to do.
Alphie
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-03 21:28
You said, "I'm asking because I've always thought that the front 1/3 of the tongue should raise a bit higher for the higher notes, however recently I've found that for the higher notes, if I drop the front 1/3 of the tongue a little bit to make it arch up, while push the entire tongue forward (but still stays high on the back), it makes it easier. But I'm not sure whether that's the right thing to do."
I find it interesting that you said the above because you will get different ideas from different people and if you say that it works better this way or that way then that's what right for you. I have an article on my website in the clarinet page called Clarinet Basics that I mention voicing. You should read it as well as some of the other articles concerning tonguing and voicing because it's simply different for everyone. So much depend on your tongue size and other physical attributes. Check it out. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-09-03 22:19
Can't you send in some pictures to show what you all look like when you stand by your mirrors measuring these things up?
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-09-03 23:15
Alphie wrote:
>> Can't you send in some pictures to show what you all look like when you stand by your mirrors measuring these things up?>>
:-)
If that's a bit too hard, leave out the clarinet. Just whistle an octave scale, and tell us what the various bits of your tongue do.
After all, you've now got a little hole to look into;-)
Tony
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