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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-06 10:37
I'm performing Weber's 2nd concerto in December and was just wondering... what exactly should I be doing during the rests? I've seen so many people do so many different things. What's protocol, what looks bad, what is preferred?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-08-06 10:47
nothing
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-08-06 12:12
I'm with DannyBoy....just dont let your spouse/SO notice you doing it.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-08-06 12:17
Morrigan, I speak as an audience member, not a performer, but actually I was trying to be helpful when I wrote "nothing".
I'm there to listen to the music. I don't want distractions. When you aren't playing, I don't want to know you are there. If you are doing anything, it is a distraction.
So just stand there. Don't move in time to the music. Don't fiddle with your instrument. Don't, for heavens sake, put on an "artistic expression" so everyone knows how moved you are by the music. Just do nothing.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-08-06 12:40
Standing in front of everyone during long rests has to be awkward. It’s rather like those times when someone tells you to “breathe normally.” You breathe most normally when you aren’t even thinking about breathing.
Thinking back on my wedding day (quite a few years ago), the only time I was nervous during the ceremony was when the soloist sang and we were just standing there.
So, maybe before asking yourself what to do, you might consider what to think about during the rests. If you can win the mind game the rest of it shouldn’t be so hard.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-08-06 14:32
"Doing nothing" isn't necessarily a passive, boring activity, although I completely agree that those who aren't playing should keep their bodies still. There's the music, for instance. I've only seen a disaster of inattention happen to a professional performer once, but a number of times, I've watched students stop listening, drift off into the nothingness and forget to come in. Once I watched a high school concert band conductor step over and wave his baton right in the first clarinetist's face to get his attention, about a measure before an entrance. Another time, the conductor of my high school orchestra simply waved the rest of us to a halt when the pianist went all vague and missed an entrance she was supposed to make with a big solo chord to begin a measure. We sat there silently staring at her for a moment, before the girl quit picking at her fingernails and realized she was a little more the center of attention than she intended. "Never mind us--we're being paid by the hour," said the teacher sarcastically.
As a member of the audience, I find fidgeters annoying. The National Symphony Orchestra had a terrible fidgeter in the first violin section a few years ago, when Rostropovich conducted. I recognized this man's face in his obituary photo when he died recently. According to the obituary, he was a revered, long-term member of the orchestra. Well, he'd have to be a huge favorite, to get away with how he acted, week after week.
He sat on the outside row where the audience couldn't avoid observing his antics. I didn't know his name back then (1980s), but I thought of him as "Laughing Jack," because he constantly seemed to be giggling over some private joke with his stand partner. The stand partner sat still and murmured out of the side of his mouth in a way that wasn't distracting, but "Laughing Jack" clearly found their dialogue hilarious. He kept his laughter silent, usually, but it would double him right over, with his head bobbing up and down, and he'd even make the motion of silently slapping his knee, right in the middle of the music. No matter how well-respected this violinist was as a musician, I can't imagine why conductors (he outstayed at least four of them) tolerated this behavior.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-08-06 16:07
For goodness sake Morrigan...lighten up.
If you think about it...you can answer your own question.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-08-06 16:22
When I performed a few months ago, I checked my cell phone messages during the rests. Should I not have done that?
/agree with doing nothing -- stand there and look relaxed and confident
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-08-06 17:29
Ralph G wrote:
> When I performed a few months ago, I checked my cell phone
> messages during the rests. Should I not have done that?
It's bad only if the cell phone rings while you are performing.
Steve Epstein
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-06 17:37
"...It's bad only if the cell phone rings while you are performing..."
and you stop to take the call 
...GBK
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-08-07 00:20
Morrigan
Definitely above all, DON'T PLAY DURING THE RESTS, lol!!!
In all seriousness, try to look like your enjoying yourself. A small smile can make you seem more personal (also gives the audience the impression your having fun, which in turn helps them to enjoy your performance that much more). Eye contact with the audience is important too, at least to me!!!
Clayton
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-07 00:31
Hello,
You have to answer your phone if it rings, it might be another gig!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-07 00:43
To go off topic for a second... I went on stage playing 2nd E-flat in Mahler 2 once, had my phone in my pocket. Came offstage, packed up, left the hall, checked phone, 3 missed calls. NOBODY heard it ring during the performance!
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-08-07 02:27
Haha, we were playing L'Arlessienne No. 2 and during the slow soft movement a violist's cell went off and the expression on the conductor's face was PRICELESS!! The only thing better was his face as he was trying to turn it off.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-08-07 06:24
If you're like me, you'll be trying to keep the audience from noticing that you're counting like mad!
Bob Phillips
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-08-07 10:21
Lots of nice rests in the Weber 2, where the orchestra has nice stuff to play.
Our band did it 2 years ago with Sarah Williamson. As no clars in orchestra we were audience members.
She would turn to the conductor and to the orchestra during some of her rests. This endeared her to audience and band alike as she showed she appreciated the work by the band. Instantly blew the "SOLOIST and ACCOMPANIMENT" feeling out of the water. Nothing relaxes and makes an audience less critical of the performers than when they appear to ENJOY what they're doing.
Try this in rehearsal and see if you are comfortable with it.
BobT
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-08-07 12:02
I've never played a concerto in public, but as first clarinet in my high school orchestra, I lived in such fear of missed entrances that I never did anything except listen, watch the conductor and count those rests. Paying attention is a very active and interesting activity if sufficiently motivated by anxiety!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-07 14:31
bob49t, that sounds great, did she just totally turn her back on the audience and listen to the orchestra.
I was thining I'd turn to the conductor (and he'd turn to me) and we'd kinda start the entry together, if you know what I mean.
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-08-07 14:49
I agree with turning slightly into the director and band/orchestra during the long rests with a congenial look or smile. At the very least don't look so serious. I think it shows respect for your accompanists and you don't have to worry about how you look to the audience. It also takes the focus OFF of you and onto the people that are actually performing at that moment......where it should be. I've even seen some professionals step a few steps to the side of the last row of the strings for the long rests and then walk back to the front when it's time to play again.
Rebecca
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-08-07 15:37
I'm sorely puzzled about Lelia's posting about the "National Symphony---terrible fidgeter in the first violin section....." Even in the 1980's the NSO had revolving string seating, so that no player would be seated on the outside--not to mention with the same stand partner--for more than two consecutive weeks! Moreover I can't recall any NSO first violinist, active or retired who died in recent memory who would fit Lelia's description.
The allegation that this individual outstayed "four conductors" is also suspect: the NSO has only had 5 music diredtors in its 75-year history; to have outlasted four of them during the Rostropovich era, the violinist would have had to have played under Hans Kindler--pre 1949! Truly a legendary codger!
There was a NSO first violinist terminated by Leonard Slatkin for stage deportment issues after a number of contract-mandated warnings; that individual is still very much alive and no longer a member of the Orchestra.
With regard to "long time, revered member": well could you imagine reading in an obituary "this clown was a incorrigable f--- up, resented by his colleagues"?
It's a good anecdote, Lelia, but I'm afraid that it has been corrupted over the passage of 20-some years!
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony Orchestra (1960-2000) retired
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-08-07 16:49
Morrigan,
Sarah possibly did turn her back on the audience, but in such a way that the orchestra was exposed as the performers of the moment. To be honest our attention was on the band at these moments, "where it should be" as Rebecca says. I'm sure a little movement to the side may have accompanied the turn to the band. If you ever get the chance to see SW in concert DO NOT miss it. If you were fortunate enough to see her playing the Copland Concerto in the BBC Young Musician 2002, you will know what I mean by "involvement" of orchestra, audience and soloist. Everyone spellbound and "zoned" That's what she does.
Of course go with your feeling of leaning to the conductor for certain entries as long as this does not detract from the music at hand. I'm sure most conductors would appreciate "more" rather than "less" communication in Weber 2. The orchestra will also rest easy that the soloist and stick are a "unit" here.
Again, nothing kills a performance quicker for me than a "sourpuss" soloist who appears to take to take every bar as another nail in his/her coffin, yet every note is technically perfect. I'd rather have someone up there with whom I can identify and communicate.
Sorry M, you've got me going here !
Be human, enjoy your Weber and this will give the orchestra enjoyment too.
BobT
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-08-07 20:15
When I'm watching Anna-Sophie Mutter play, I can't wait for her rests. That scowl she evokes while playing makes me want to move to the back row of the hall.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-08-07 20:58
WWMDD
(What would Miles Davis do?)
In that vein, turn your back to the audience during the entire performance.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2005-08-07 21:02
Just a thought-
during an extended rest for the soloist, would it be less distracting to the audience for the soloist to sit in a chair or stool next to his/her spot? Would this somehow be misinterpreted as disrespectful?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-08-08 14:51
Larry Bocaner wrote,
>>There was a NSO first violinist terminated by Leonard Slatkin for stage deportment issues after a number of contract-mandated warnings; that individual is still very much alive and no longer a member of the Orchestra.
>>
Different person. Unrelated incident.
>>It's a good anecdote, Lelia, but I'm afraid that it has been corrupted over the passage of 20-some years! >>
I regret posting that message, because now that someone has questioned my memory or truthfulness, I will have to speak ill of the respected dead. The violinist I nicknamed "Laughing Jack" was Milton Schwartz.
Mr. Bocaner wrote,
>>The allegation that this individual outstayed "four conductors" is also suspect: the NSO has only had 5 music diredtors in its 75-year history; to have outlasted four of them during the Rostropovich era, the violinist would have had to have played under Hans Kindler--pre 1949! Truly a legendary codger!
>>
I was careless to state that Mr. Schwartz "outstayed" four conductors. He played with the NSO under four conductors, but retired before Rostropovich left. Similarly, I wrote that I witnessed the "Laughing Jack" incidents in the "1980s" -- a typo. I witnessed these incidents in the late 1970s. Given that I knew the message might be controversial, I should have treated it as a formal review and proofread the details against my clippings and old concert notes, before I posted it. However, I stand by the substance of what I wrote.
Tim Page wrote the excellent obituary I mentioned, "Appreciation: Violinist Milton Schwartz, the NSO's First String," The Washington Post, Thursday, February 6, 2003, Style section, p. C1 and C10. According to that article, Mr. Schwartz died on Feb. 3, 2003 at the age of 94. Mr. Schwartz performed in the National Symphony Orchestra's very first concert on January 31, 1930. He remained a member of the orchestra under Hans Kindler until 1945, then (dissatisfied with Kindler) temporarily decamped to the Capitol Theater. He returned to the NSO in 1958 or 1959 (the article doesn't specify the year, but it seems to have been very soon after Howard Mitchell took over as Director), and stayed there for another 28 years, under Mitchell, Antal Dorati (from 1969) and Msitslav Rostropovich (from 1977), then retired in 1981 while Rostropovich was still the Director. Although Mr. Schwartz retired before Leonard Slatkin became director, as Page writes, "In 1998, on the occasion of his [Schwartz's] 90th birthday, the orchestra dedicated a performance to Schwartz."
I didn't begin noticing the "Laughing Jack" behavior until soon after Rostropovich took over as Director. I gave up my season ticket after Rostropovich's first year (1977), and stopped attending the Rostropovich performances altogether after 1979, but at least until then, these incidents of distracting behavior by Mr. Schwartz did occur regularly. According to the notes I took at the time, at all of the Rostropovich concerts I attended where I noticed "Laughing Jack," Mr. Schwartz sat at an outside desk (sometimes on the right of the stand and sometimes on the left, sometimes two rows back and sometimes as many as three rows back, but always an outside desk) nearest to the audience. My notes describe his annoying behavior in detail.
I thought the orchestra as a whole often looked and sounded sloppy under Rostropovich. Although I'm a great fan of Rostropovich's cello playing, I was glad when Leonard Slatkin became the NSO's Director in 1994. Slatkin didn't conduct a bloodbath, but by January, 2003, he was responsible for hiring 31 players, about a third of the orchestra, according to Tim Page, "A Hire Duty for Slatkin," The Washington Post, January 12, 2003, Arts section, p. G1 and G9. IMHO, FWIW, Leonard Slatkin considerably improved both the sound and the appearance of the NSO. I singled out Mr. Schwartz, who bothered me the most because of where he sat, but he wasn't the only one who talked, slouched in his seat, shuffled his feet, squirmed, waggled his bow to illustrate points in his conversation and otherwise engaged in distracting or unprofessional-looking behavior on stage when Rostropovich conducted. My husband played chamber music at the time with a close relative of an NSO musician, who told us in private conversation (and therefore I won't identify him, so please don't ask) that he considered Rostropovich "a musician's conductor," a delightful man who empathized with the players so much that he was too easygoing about discipline.
No matter what the conductor does or does not do, I like to see a musician convey personal dignity and pride in the work by showing respect for colleagues who are playing. That means keeping mouth and body still unless there's a musical reason to move or to say something. If the clarinets are tacet to the end of this piece and the stand partner gets ready for the next one by opening up the wrong score, that's a good reason to speak. "Did you hear the one about the soprano and the drummer?" is not.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-08-08 16:31
Lelia,
Sorry to have impugned your memory: Milton Schwartz was indeed a charter member of the NSO from its founding in 1931, and he was a respected member of the orchestra. He did occupy the second stand outside first violin chair prior to the establishment of the revolving seating scheme.
I was never aware of any disruptive behavior on his part from my chair in the clarinet section, although his appearance was, shall we say,"flambouyant."
Re your comments about the orchestra "looked and sounded sloppy under Rostropovich". I don't think the problem was particularly a matter of a lack of discipline; for all of Slava's incredible musicality, his conducting technique was, in those early years, a work in progress. It did improve over the passage of time, but he was never too concerned with the mechanical details of a performance--for him the emotional content of the music was paramount. This often resulted in performances that left players and audiences breathless; less often in miserable train wrecks!
It seems to be a fact of orchestra life that every change of regime brings with it a PR spin to the effect that the new chief has "improved " the orchestra. I rember, as a young student in Chicago playing in the Civic Orchestra and ushering at Orchestra Hall, hearing transcendent music-making from the Chicago Symphony under Rafael Kubelik and guest conductors like Bruno Walter. I had to laugh when I later read critiques crediting Reiner and Solti with creating this great orchestra in Chicago, when IMHO it already existed.
When I left Chicago in 1951, for Juilliard, it seemed to me, listening to the Philharmonic and such visiting orchestras as Boston, that something was missing in the critics' perception.
Well, sorry to digress; thanks for setting the record straight!
Larry
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-08-08 16:48
I would subtly use cigarette paper (which ought to be in your pocket) to dry out tone holes and I would even swab out if it's a long enough rest and if you can do it without distracting people. Turning toward the ensemble and back to audience may help with this. Although I must be honest and say that I don't know if I would have the nerve to swab out during rests of a concerto myself. But I would certainly advise the use of cigarette paper instead of blowing into the tone holes vigorously during a lyrical accompaniment part!
-Tyler
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-08 18:32
Watch other soloists. The key is quiet attention. Pianists sit with their hands in their laps, looking at the conductor. Violinists tuck the instrument under their right arm, usually with the bow held in their right hand fingers pointing down. They also look at the conductor.
In neither case does the soloist move. Being a statue is more like it. You should do the same. If you need to "feel" the pulse, synchronize your breathing to it, rather than swaying. Keep your eyes open. If you close them, it's too easy to look track, and the conductor can't make eye contact before your next entrance.
One standard posture is to hold the bell of your clarinet at waist level in your right hand, with the upper part resting on your right shoulder, like a soldier's rifle. A second possibility is to wrap your right hand around the instrument where your left hand fingers go and tuck the bell under your right elbow. If the rest is fairly short, you could keep your fingers on the holes and hold the instrument diagonally across your body, with the bell to the right. Like the other soloists, watch but don't stare at the conductor.
It's not difficult. Get out of the way, but stay engaged.
Ken Shaw
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-08-08 20:08
So being buried to the 2nd knuckle searching for nose-gold would be inappropriate?
I saw Ricardo Morales do his thing with the Philly a few months back, and he popped the reed off a couple times, but generally was attentive to the maestro and the orchestra. Same thing seeing Kitt with the National last summer.
It is the height of arrogance to act like you are the only performer on stage and when you aren't playing, nothing else could possibly be going on. Whether I am standing in front of a classical ensemble, sitting in the back of one counting rests, or playing in a stage band or jazz quintet listening to someone else blow changes, I pay attention. It is the respectful thing to do. You can maintain appropriate contact (e.g. don't turn your back) with the audience but share your attention with the conductor and the ensemble when you aren't playing. And as Ken says, don't be a distraction.
Good luck with your program!
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