 The Fingering Forum
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Author: Luke Theall
Date: 2003-01-28 01:59
I am composing a piece for my jazz combo, and I was wondering if I am in the key of G maj, then what would I do to the sax?
Please help me!!!!
A fellow musician,
Luke R. Theall
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2003-01-28 05:55
Put the alto and bari in E and the soprano and tenor in A.
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Author: Benny B
Date: 2003-01-28 19:06
hes already in G major so im assuming u dont mean G concert?
so G major for tenor and soprano sax
and D for alto and bari??
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2003-01-28 22:52
Umm if he's writing for a jazz combo, then of course he's talking about "concert" pitch. And depending on which saxophone he's planning on using, he should therefore write any soprano or tenor parts in A and any alto or baritone parts in E. Why would he be talking about G major exclusively for Bb instruments and not the <i>real</i> G major?
TorusTubarius: <i>*Fights urge to start railing against the idea of "concert pitch" despite deep-seeded musical frustration.*</i>
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Author: Benny B
Date: 2003-01-29 01:15
OMG he said. "I was wondering if I am in the key of G maj"
he said KEY G MAJOR
not G CONCERT
he is probably thinking in G major for tenor sax
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2003-01-29 03:52
Oh lord Benny, you're touching on one of my biggest musical pet peeves. There is only one G major. A "G" is a the sound with a frequency of 391.995 Hz in a scale tuned at A=440 Hz. When you play a "G" (thumb key G) on the tenor sax, you're producing a sound that's ~349.228 Hz, which is in reality an F.
Despite what transposing instruments like the tenor sax may call them, when you standardize your tuning at A=440Hz, that means that our ears discern only one A, one G, one F, etc. This idea of "concert pitch" only exists so that people who play transposing instruments can sort out the chaos that is caused by having instruments that play music pitched in keys different from the key in which the band or orchestra is <i>actually</i> playing.
What irks me about this is that the key the music is in, such as the music Luke is trying to compose, is <i>not</i> dependent on what the various instruments have written on the piece of paper in front of them, nor is is dependent on what you call each fingering you have to use to reproduce that music on those instruments. Rather, it is soley dependent on the <i>sound</i> of the music itself.
If you look at it this way, the whole idea of concert pitch is obtuse. There is no concert pitch; G major is G major. Nevermind what your music says, or what fingerings you're using to play it... if you're a tenor saxophone playing music written in G major, and you ask someone with perfect pitch who has no knowledge of how your instrument's music is transposed what key you're playing in, they will say, "Why the key of F, of course." And they would be right.
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2003-01-29 05:02
(laughs in the back of the room, as the triumphant torus rules again...haha.) How terribly robin hood "en culottes".
D-oboe
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2003-01-29 05:04
oh, and about the keys...geeze Benny! read first! Quote from Luke: "and I was wondering if I am in the key of G maj, then what would I do to the sax?...I thought that was pretty straight forward...
What is it? Do people not take high school english or something? I dunno...
D-oboe
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Author: Carolyn
Date: 2003-01-29 20:26
Torus, everything you said was completely correct, but the question is, was Luke talking about concert pitch or pitch for his instrument. You can talk (or type, LOL) till you're blue in the face, and be absolutely correct in everything you're saying, but if Luke happened to mean his pitch, instead of concert pitch, then all information given to him on how to transpose would be wrong.
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2003-01-29 22:00
Luke didn't specify his instrument; he just said he was writing a jazz combo, not a sax combo, and needed to know what key to put the saxophone in. I just assumed since most people write jazz music by combining chords on the piano or guitar under a particular motif that he meant G major as in the <i>real</i> G major.
It doesn't really make any sense to think that he meant what should he do with the other saxophones if one is already in G. Unless he's just being really vague, he would've specified which saxophone he was talking about. Nor does it make sense to assume as Benny did, that if he did mean G major for one saxophone that it was the tenor sax. Why could he have not meant he was in G major for the alto, in which case the tenor would have to be in C?
Really what we should do is ask Luke to specify for us since we once again have the idea of "concert pitch" confusing the masses. But I'll bet you large sums of money he meant "concert" G major.
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Author: Benny B
Date: 2003-01-30 00:03
because he said jazz combo and sax i thought he is talking in Gmaj for tenor. normaly when i hear G maj for sax i think tenor because its a Bb instrument.
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Author: Gnomon
Date: 2003-01-30 07:23
But in that case, there is no question. He's writing in G maj for Tenor Sax. What does he do with the sax?
Answer: he writes in G major.
The question only makes sense (as it was stated) if it is interpreted as Torus did originally.
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Author: finlandia_flautist
Date: 2003-01-30 08:19
HAHAHA! i think you all should have more arguments like this more often. it's very entertaining. i hope that was all not too confusing for poor Luke.
(just thought i'd comment)
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