 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-02-02 07:32
I`ve been playing saxes for about 6yrs. and are quite happy in little not too hard bands. For somerthing extra I`ve started playing the clarinet and that`s started the problem.
If I practice the clarinet for an hour and then try a sax I`m finding I have to think hard or even look up a chart to play the odd simple note like an E on the sax when I have been playing Es on the clarinet. Now that is ridiculous after the years and millions of sax Es I`ve played.
Probably age has something to do with it because I`m a senior citizen but while I`ld like to progress with the clarinet I`m concerned that it might push my sax ability way,way back.
Any thoughts on this one? Perhaps playing the sax a short time and follow immediately with the clarinet, or the opposite; don`t play them both the same day?
Then again maybe this is normal and will all come good in the end (hope?)
Would welcome your contribution
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Author: rcnelson
Date: 2008-02-02 15:44
I think that others would agree, but if anything, clarinet playing HELPS the saxophone. It should not hurt. I know when I'm playing more clarinet, such as I'm doing now in a community band, my saxophone playing actually improves. I would recommend practicing both on the same day, every day. Consistency will help. AND... find good private teachers, on both. Perhaps with you, it would be beneficial to find 1 teacher that plays both. Depending on where you live, there are many oth there.
It's my belief that things will work out it in the end.
Ron
Selmer Mark VI tenor (1957), Selmer Mark VII alto (1975)
Buescher True Tone soprano (1924), Selmer CL210 Bb Clarinet, Gemeinhardt 3SHB Flute, Pearl PFP105 Piccolo
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-02-02 19:33
Well thank you for your contribution. I don`t doubt what you say but it just seems natural that the clarinet will hinder the progress of sax playing and visa-versa. When you are reading the music and your brain is trying to remember the fingering for the note instead of the new instrument reinforcing the memory it is asking it to play the same note but fingered completely different.
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Author: rcnelson
Date: 2008-02-02 20:49
The primary thing that helps the saxophone is that it's fingering system is so much easier than the clarinet. And the open holes of the clarinet have to be dealt with, an issue that the saxophone keys take completely care of. I believe what would best for you is to find an outlet or 2 where you can play both.
Best wishes and good luck.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2008-02-04 01:37
If you always play the instruments separately (clarinet in one band, saxophone in another), then not practicing both instruments on the same day (schedule permitting) might help.
If however you are doubling (pit orchestra, big band, etc.) then there's no way around it: you'll have to train your mind and hands to do the rapid gearshifting. If that's the case, it would definitely help to practice both instruments in the same session.
It's been my observation that most amateur doublers will always be better on the instrument they learned first.
Perhaps your age might be a factor. On the one hand, age is nothing but a number. On the other hand, not all numbers are created equal.
You could look at this as a disaster. Or you could look at it as an opportunity.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2008-02-05 15:39
Well, I've gone through similar things in my days of doubling, and they always work themselves out in the end. Just keep practicing every day and you'll gradually become more adept. Not to worry--it will happen!
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Author: mikeW
Date: 2008-02-06 17:54
I think it's true that trying to play clarinet will hinder your sax playing somewhat. At least in the sense that practicing clarinet will take time that you would otherwise be practicing the sax. Otherwise, no.
On the whole, playing clarinet will help your sax playing. The clarinet embouchure is firmer than sax and should improve your endurance and ability to focus the air stream. On the clarinet, hand position is much more crucial than it at first appears to be on the sax. However, good hand position on the sax will make it easier to develop a fluid and agile technique. In band music, clarinet parts are generally more technically challenging than sax parts (I know there are exceptions to this, so let's not launch into a debate.)
The whole aspect of doubling takes time. You'll eventually learn to pretty much switch off one instrument and switch on another in the time it takes to make the change. The bad news is that reading the notes and getting the correct fingerings is the easy part. Fortunately, there are some world-class doublers (JJM et al.) reading these boards, so you will sometimes get advice worth far more than what you paid for it (for the record, and only with regards to my post, this is not one of those times). So have fun with it.
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2008-02-10 00:17
yes when i recently started playing alto sax in my high school big band i found it easy at day one.
and at day two i had to show the more "experienced" sax players what the notes where
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Author: johnnymo0829
Date: 2008-04-03 13:49
one thing I found helps with my students when I start them with doubleing is to practice the two instruments together in short spurts. play 15 mins on sax to warm up....long tones, then 15 mins on the clarinet doing the same thing. if you practice for an hour try to spend half the time on each, but break it up so you have to learn to adjust to each one rapidly. It could also help to make sure that your setups on the two instruments are semi similar. If you play a very open facing on the sax, play a little softer reed on the clarinet till you get the hang of it. I went from sax to clarinet when I started playing and I remember the first thing I had found was the clarinet is a little more demanding on the embature, so I had worked with a softer reed on the clarinet and a harder reed on sax for a while to try to find a happy medium between the two. Once I started to do that I found after a month or so of steady work switching between the two was not so bad. good luck
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2008-04-04 16:52
I've played bassoon for 25 years & about 5years ago (in my late 50s) learned the bari sax to do a show (Had a year to get to know it). I still play mainly bassoon (& contra bassoon) but also play in a big band most weeks & find I can swap between the two quite happily most of the time but occasionally things go astray, usually late in the session when getting tired. Talking to a full time London pro bassoonist/contra player (specialising in the latter) she says that she gets confused sometimes between the differing fingerings at the top of those two instruments even with the amount of playing & swapping she has to do.
Keep at it - there's hope for us more mature types!
Ian
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-04-06 01:02
Thank you all. It is not so much in a practice sesson, it is the need to switch between sax and the clarinet (depending on the piece) in our little band. However perseverence (and lousy fingering) is what I`ve got. I`ll beat it.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2008-04-12 17:43
It takes experience and practice to make this transition. If you are will to give it the time, and it sounds like you are, then by all means don't let a little adversity stop you. If you don't have the time to practice both as needed to reach the level of competence you desire, then I'd recommend you either walk away from the endeavor or plan to spend a lot more time (read years) coming up to speed.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: claribari
Date: 2008-07-14 15:03
Ronish,
I double on Bari sax and B-flat clarinet, the fingerings came pretty easy to me (except for the occasional slip-up), but for me (since I go from Bari for Jazz Band to Clarinet for concert band) I found that the hardest thing for me was the embochure. It's probably easier going from alto or soprano to clarinet (I wouldn't know I only play bari) but as far as private lessons go, I would look for a retired band teacher or someone like that. I had a retired teacher for my private instructor and it made it easier because I was forced to go from one instrument to the other in a matter of a minute or two. I also recomend playing clarinet first one day, and then playing sax first the next day, and so on.
Happy playing,
~ Claribari
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-10-24 14:24
I double on all things clarinet (my primary, from eefer to bass) and alto sax (as well as flute/picc, but very rarely, and I can play oboe in extreme emergencies). I've played clarinets for 21 years, picked up flute/picc 3 years later after my sister quit playing, oboe a few years ago cuz my orchestra didn't have an oboist, and alto sax a couple years ago just because.
I've found that between the clarinet and sax, the note fingerings and names are ok as long as I think of the correct register. In terms of pitch (disregarding note names), the fingerings are very similar in the lower register of clarinet (at least when most of the 1-2-3 fingers are involved; pinkies and alternates can be tricky for me). In terms of note name (disregarding pitch), I just have to remember the names are the same, but only when in the upper register.
The fun times of clarinet overblowing at the 12th (due to the bore shape) when the other woodwinds overblow at the octave (I can't speak for bassoon, the only woodwind I have absolutely no knowledge of; I'm also assuming that EH is similar to oboe just in a different key).
My problem going between the two is that the RH position is different. When I go to sax, my hand takes the clarinet position with it. That results in my 3rd finger hitting the 2nd key, my 2nd finger hitting the 1st key, and my 1st finger hitting a key cup with no key on it (in other words, my hand is shifted too high). I actually have to watch myself place my hand in the right spot as I can'tdo that by feel just yet). That's probably why playing sax is painful if I play long enough; I'm shifting my hand wackily. Sometimes on clarinet, I actually shift my RH thumb above the thumbrest to relieve pressure.
I realize this is an old thread, but I poke around the older stuff from time to time looking for new-to-me information or to see where I maight be able to contribute a little (I primarily hang around the clarinet board, but I shift around from time to time).
Rachel
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