 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: Markael
Date: 2006-05-26 02:34
I got the idea for this thread from a post by Carol Dutcher on another thread. I have two ruminations about soprano sax.
The first is about the desirability of a clarinet player choosing to double on soprano rather than, say, alto or tenor. Tenor seems to be the most popular, and indeed, it is a wonderful solo instrument with a long line of master players. But that’s just the point. It seems that everybody wants to do what everybody else does.
I say this as one who always thought I would someday pick up the alto sax. Someday came, and I picked up bass clarinet instead.
The second is a question about the instrument itself. I once heard a radio program in which Bob Wilber was talking about his saxophone. It is an older instrument with a curved bell, like the bigger saxes. Does the curved bell give it a more mellow, less harsh sound?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-05-26 11:27
It does seem to me that a curved or semi-curved bell soprano sounds less shrill and more mellow than a straight soprano, but I'm an amateur and have only played vintage saxophones, not modern ones. I've heard that a true curved bell creates some intonation problems on a soprano sax, and that a straight bell soprano tends to have better intonation. My soprano sax is a semi-curved 1924 King Saxello with good intonation. Despite all the conventional wisdom about soprano saxes being hard to play, I've found soprano sax the most intuitive of the saxophones, probably because my first reed instrument was Bb clarinet. I use the same embouchure for soprano sax that I use for soprano clarinet and that takes one big variable away from the adjustment curve when I switch instruments. Maybe soprano sax is a more difficult adjustment for someone who's coming from alto or tenor sax, with a less-firm embouchure.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2006-05-26 11:29)
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-05-26 13:59
Markael,
Your comment about the tenor -- how everyone wants to do what everyone else does -- is insightful. I read an interview with Ray Pizzi in which he bemoans "What has happened to the tenor saxophone?". I agree with you. I cannot stand the sound of a bright and edgy tenor anymore than I can stand the sound of Kenny G on soprano and all of the David Sanborn clones on alto. One thing that I've gotten GREAT ENJOYMENT from is to take my own road -- especially, in going back to the great vintage saxophones from the 1930's and exploring their tonal qualities. In effect, I let my horn (a 1934 Buescher New Aristocrat) lead me to develop a dark fat sound that feels right for this instrument. It stands in contract to what tends to be popular today. But that doesn't bother me in the least. I find it fun to play with tenor players who have a bright contemporary sound. When they hear the sound of my Buescher -- in particular how powerful the low range of the horn is -- it often comes as a shock to them. If you're drawn to the tenor I'd encourage you to develop your own personal approach to the instrument and not be bothered by popular trends. The tenor is a big enough horn for LOTS of different styles.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2006-05-26 14:14
Roger,
What you are saying sounds great!
For some reason, I have never particularly had a desire to play tenor, even though I love to listen to it.
When you say "dark, fat sound," do you mean as in Coleman Hawkins? He is at or near the top of my list of favorites.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-26 15:12
If you'd like some idea of a modern tenor player with what most folks would consider a 'dark' sound, listen to Joe Lovano. He's fabulous.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2006-05-26 17:13
I have an alto sax that plays so beautifully. I used to have a tenor but it became too heavy for me so I traded it for the alto. I have wanted a soprano sax for a long time and can't even really give a good reason for this. Maybe listening to Sidney Bechet? I went to Best Music in Oakland and they were nice enough to let me try out a number of different sopranos, and provided me with a mouthpiece that day since not owning a soprano sax, I didn't have one. I really loved the Cannonball which had a slightly curved bottom, it reminded me of a pipe. But the price was prohibitive. I thought that I would not get one after all, but then came along the used Vito complete with accessories, which I could afford, so I bought it. The alto and the soprano cannot be compared tone-wise - the soprano is loud and shrill. The alto is soft and mellow. I think the intonation is part of the problem I am having with the soprano, I'm not used to all that sound! It's certainly interesting learning to play a different type of horn.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-05-27 11:10
>>In effect, I let my horn (a 1934 Buescher New Aristocrat) lead me to develop a dark fat sound that feels right for this instrument. It stands in contract to what tends to be popular today. >>
I love the sound of those Bueschers from the 1920s and 1930s. I hacen't been able to make myself sell my old Buescher alto and tenor, although I don't play them much because the keywork is too awkward for me. Someone with bigger hands than mine would find Bueschers more comfortable than I do--but I do love that mellow tone. People who think the instrument has nothing to do with the tone (the performer does it all) might change their minds if they could compare a vintage Buescher with a brand new "Black & Decker Section Wrecker." I'm stealing that wonderful phrase from somebody and I can't remember from whom!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-05-27 14:11
Lelia Loban wrote:
> brand new "Black & Decker Section Wrecker." I'm stealing that
> wonderful phrase from somebody and I can't remember from whom!
>
I've seen British Clarinet/Sax player/teacher Paul Harvey use that phrase in a Saxophone Journal article.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-06-15 00:39
It has taken me a long time to play the soprano in a pleasing manner. My wife, a long time clarinetist, took to it much faster. I'm still struggling with intonation issues but that's more about me than the instrument.
The choice of mouthpiece will determine the sound more than anything else. A curvie or straight soprano sax will sound like you in the end. So work to find that 'just right' mouthpiece and you will be halfway there. The rest is about practice, long tones, and more practice.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2006-06-28 21:51)
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Author: nickles8189
Date: 2006-09-02 16:49
i've heard that soprano sax is harder than the other saxes to play? any opinions? i already play all the other woodwinds (including e-flat, b-flat, bass, and contra-alto clarinet as well as alto and tenor sax), so i expect i'd be able to play soprano. i'm just curious why some people might say it's more difficult. they must mean the embrouchure because the fingering's are the same as the other saxes...
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2006-11-21 21:20
Back again after all these months. I'm still struggling with my soprano. I talked with a real pro the other night and he said, "It's got to be your mouthpiece." I studied the mouthpiece chart in WWBW and called them up and ordered a couple of mouthpieces to try that are on the left hand side of the chart. One I have now that I could find on their chart, a Lakey, was on the right hand side of the chart! This sounds very un-intelligent, but what do you do when you don't know what you are doing? So if these two new mouthpieces work better for me, and also a Yamaha mouthpiece to try that my brother is sending me from Minnesota, I'll be a happy camper. On my alto sax I use a Yanagisawa #3 which is heaven to play.
Doubt if any of this made any sense, but anyway, I'm still struggling and still don't have the nerve to play the soprano in public. Will let you know what happens with these new mouthpieces, if anything good comes from it. I'm giving myself until the end of this year to make good progress.
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Author: Bret Pimentel
Date: 2006-11-22 02:42
The soprano saxophone seems to suffer from a reputation of being a difficult instrument to play, in terms of achieving a pleasing tone and accurate intonation.
I do think the small size of the instrument means having to hit a somewhat smaller target in terms of correct embouchure, voicing, etc. But I think the biggest factor isn't the soprano's inherent difficulty--the biggest factor is that it is relatively unfamiliar.
First, as saxophonists we virtually always approach the soprano coming from the larger alto and/or tenor as our main instruments. Most of the bad soprano playing I hear, including from "professional" players, would improve with some time spent paying dues on the soprano. Shoot for mouthpiece pitch of a "C," one octave above middle C on the piano, and do your overtone exercises faithfully. Once you've got those under control (weeks? months? years?), you're beginning to play soprano like a soprano player, instead of like an alto or tenor player.
Second, it seems there are few decent soprano players out there on which to model our playing. Sidney Bechet and Kenny G have both been mentioned in this thread already; each has a fairly quirky approach to the instrument, and probably most saxophonists would prefer to sound like neither. Tune in your local "smooth jazz" station to hear lots of buzzy, quacky soprano playing. I suggest any aspiring soprano player listen very critically to lots of other soprano players, and choose wisely which ones you will imitate. I like David Liebman for a jazz player with a clearly well-developed approach to the soprano; Eugene Rousseau is an obvious choice for classical recordings.
Good luck!!
Bret
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-11-22 04:00
Bret Pimentel wrote:
I suggest any aspiring soprano player listen
> very critically to lots of other soprano players, and choose
> wisely which ones you will imitate. I like David Liebman for a
> jazz player with a clearly well-developed approach to the
> soprano; Eugene Rousseau is an obvious choice for classical
> recordings.
>
> Good luck!!
> Bret
Branford ain't bad either.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-11-22 04:22
I think that tuning on a sop sax is particularly difficult, because there's no resistance, at least with the mp's I have.
On a clarinet, you spend lots of practice in building your embochure. You work on having an even, steady tone and you can't do that if your embo isn't firm and steady from start to finish. To some extent, intonation and a nice sound on a clarinet are a function of embochure.
But on a sax, you've got that open, rounded mouth. The larger saxes are all about putting enough air into the horn, but I notice that even on the larger saxes, the lack of resistance means I have to more conciously be aware of what the real pitch is for each note I play, since without resistance, i.e., without a firm embo, the pitch can drift all over the place. And this is most acute on a sop sax, which takes less air, and which feels so much like a clarinet, but is not a clarinet. Same problem for recorders.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2006-11-23 15:33
Now I'm worried that the mouthpieces I ordered won't be refunded if I send them back. WWBW is going bankrupt. Always something, isn't it!
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