 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-03 17:45
How deep are the reed sockets meant to be on Buffet pro oboes?
I've recently done some work on an early '70s Buffet oboe and the reed socket is 23.5mm deep. Has to be pointed out that this Buffet was bought in Hungary where I suspect Concert Pitch is around the 442-444 region as this oboe plays very sharp with the reed pushed all the way in.
I realise reed socket depth isn't an easy thing to measure as it's relative to the overall length of the top joint bore - when I used to depth reed sockets at Howarth we used a metal plug of a specific depth and a gauge to measure the top of the plug to the end of the tenon which determined how deep to countersink the socket to its final depth (usually around 0.5-1mm was removed to gain the correct depth relative to bore length). My Howarth S5 has a reed socket depth of 19mm, so considerably shallower than the 23.5mm deep socket this Buffet has.
As the owner is having trouble keeping down to 440Hz, I made a 5mm long delrin bush with a 4mm bore which I pushed into the socket so the reed won't go in so far. The joint lengths and tonehole positions on the Buffet are in the usual places when compared with my other 440Hz calibrated oboes, so this has helped to bring the pitch down uniformly, although as the reeds the owner has are much shorter than those I use, she is still up around the 441-442Hz region.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MikeWilson
Date: 2014-01-05 01:39
My Buffet Greenline 3603G-2 (made in 2006) has an insertable staple depth of about 18.5mm as I measure it. My Howarths - S5 (1990s) and S2 (late 1950s or 1960s) both measure at about 17.5mm.
On a reed which plays at 440hz on the S5, the Buffet plays significantly flat and the S2 plays slightly sharp.
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-05 08:13
Hi Mike, are you in Southsea as stated in your IP address?
The owner of the Buffet lives in Southsea - she was over on Friday just gone as she's having trouble with the altissimo speaking cleanly. The top fingerplate opens fully and the aperture had been waxed in with a tiny hole through the centre (around 0.6-7mm). I closed the top plate down so she can no longer use open C# and opened the aperture to 1.1mm and this worked a treat. Also her RH ring finger uncovers the split D#-E plate aperture when playing the low notes, so I plugged this up which means she loses the split D#-E trill which isn't the end of the world.
Her tuning was still on the sharp side, but her reed is a couple of months old so probably on its way out. I had her play my S5 (1995 model) and she had the same tuning issues on that consistent with her Buffet, so the 5mm insert in the reed socket seems to be the right length. When I played her Buffet I didn't have any trouble with the tuning using the same reed I use with my S5. Even better was Suzie Shrubb came over and I had her try the Buffet and she had no problem with the tuning using my reed (she brought her clarinet over so didn't have any of her own reeds with her).
The Buffet had been overhauled in Hungary prior to being bought - it is airtight, but the quality of the work has still got a lot to be desired.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-01-05 03:13)
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-01-05 18:17
Hi... Happy New Year!
I am not sure if the well depth has anything to do with the instrument pitch. The instrument tone holes are positioned based on the location of the reed vibration point regardless of well depth, which I think is few mm off the tip of the staple. If the position of the reed vibration point is changed, i.e. reed is pulled out wheather or not the void in the well is filled, the tone hole positions of the instrument would become out of alinment. Generally, that should cause the notes with most of the holes closed (such as low Bb, middle C#, D..) to be slightly out of tune compared to those with mostly open tone holes (mid C, B..).
The more tone holes are open, the note we play has a more room for lip adjustment. So we do not notice as much.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-05 21:05
I'm surprised we haven't met as I'm over Pompey way a fair bit with pit bands and small orchestras linked with the PGS or the HMS Nelson volunteer band Corps of Drums (on bass drum).
What bands/orchestras do you play in?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MikeWilson
Date: 2014-01-05 22:12
Chris, I haven't played in any bands/orchestras for eons - not since I was a student at Southampton. I was in the University orchestra for 4 years, played in a wind quintet for 3 of those and did some paid engagements when home during the holidays. Of course becoming a 5th year medic and then houseman largely stopped me playing completely. But a few years ago I thought I'd start again - found that my old oboe was beyond repair and got the Buffet. Subsequently I've acquired 2 more oboes and now 2 cors (S5 and S2). Over the last 2 years I've gone entirely mad and started learning bassoon, as well as violin & viola (!) and am about to throw some clarinet into the mix.
Had I seen about the Bournemouth rusty musicians concert in time I might well have gone along - the problem next year might be which instrument to choose though...
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-06 02:46
I'm also a returning player having played oboe at school, then giving it up for around ten years only to rekindle my interest after hearing Heinz Holliger playing the Strauss concerto which led me to buying a Yamaha Custom and learning properly with a proper oboe teacher. I'm being asked to do more oboe playing than anything else so it seems - I'm a dance band bari sax player really! I used to play regularly at Hilsea Lido but hardly play sax anymore.
I was brought out of 'retirement' when asked if I would like to play bari on a CD of big band music written mostly by Simon D'Souza (one track out of the nine was written by someole else but arranged by Simon) which was great to get back playing with the band I had to pack in due to prohibitive fuel prices. Here's a link to the CD:
http://souzamusic.bandcamp.com/album/navigation?fb_action_ids=10151901881293547&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582 (I'm playing bari on tracks 2, 4, 5 and 6 as I could only make the 2nd day of the recording session - I was playing Bach's Magnificat on the 1st day, so a complete contrast of musical interests there!).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-06 08:42
Happy New Year Joung!
I don't know if Buffet just fitted extra deep sockets on what are otherwise standard length joints so the pitch can be pushed up to 444Hz, but logic would dictate they set the toneholes out relative to the shorter bore. Either the players at 444Hz did a lot of lip work to compensate with the reed pushed all the way in or they doctored the toneholes on the lower joint to sharpen the lower end, but as this oboe plays in tune with itself at 440Hz, some sort of lip gymnastic trickery on the player's part must have taken place. Both this Buffet and my Howarth S5 are identical in length. I've got a clarinet built to 444Hz and it's significantly shorter than a clarinet built to 440Hz.
While at Howarth we supplied oboes to East Europe which were all built to 440Hz, so I don't know how players manage to push the pitch up that high on the low notes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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