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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2022-01-23 20:23
Hi all, I'm looking for some advice about reed tip openings on an American long scrape. I've been fighting with producing large enough openings that can stand up to the very cold, very dry climate where I live, that can last beyond a couple of hours of use before collapsing.
I know smaller cane diameter should produce larger tip openings but I'm wondering which other variables I can work with. Most often, I use an Adam Joshua +2 shape on 47mm Glotin silver staples tied at 72.5mm (this combo was my teacher's preference long ago). I also use RDG -1N and 1 tips occasionally but prefer the Joshua's tone.
Ross gouge, typically 10.5mm diameter but I've been aiming for pieces on the smaller side. Center thickness 0.58-0.60 (though I've also tried thinner)
What are the relationships between tie length or staple outer diameter and tip opening? Any suggestions as to what I might change? (shorter or longer tie, wider or narrow staple, thicker gouge)
In high school before I played seriously, I had a teacher who'd studied in Boston and played on narrow reeds with huge round openings. They were somehow also easy to play and control but I don't know how he achieved it. One detail I do remember is that he clipped the corners but that's never worked for me in any context.
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Edit: Another thing I've tried with limited success is to clip the tip open on my blanks before leaving them overnight to dry. While this does seem to produce blanks that are much more open initially than the blanks I've allowed to dry without clipping open, I'm not sure it affects my reeds later in their lifespans. It might only make them harder to stabilize at first.
Michael
Post Edited (2022-01-23 20:35)
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2022-01-24 00:11
I have tried a variety of methods, but I have found the best way forward is to make sure you rest the reed through each stage at least 2-3 days, and I generally leave them a week after clipping the openings, and do the scrapings over several stages, each having at least 2 days rest. I have made reeds over a variety of climactic conditions and find that the resting stages are the one thing that give me long lasting reeds with a stable opening. I use cane 10;5 mm to 11 mm. My first teacher used cane 9.5 to 10 mm but he made in a moist climate, but then sent to me who lived in a very dry climate and I found when I got them, it was a real struggle to play on them. When I moved near him, there was no problem. I hope these observations help. There was one place I lived at with a dessicating climate, that I resorted to wiring my reeds - and I do not like doing that. Geoff
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2022-01-24 17:22
Thanks for your thoughts. I do let my blanks rest after clipping open, anywhere from 1 to usually more like 7 days, and scrape in stages. It's probably about 2 weeks between the day I tie a reed and finally begin playing on it. I live in the far north central US, with a 5 month winter. December through February are deeply cold and dry. (I take some comfort knowing if I keep these reeds around, they'll spring to life in June)
Michael
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2022-04-23 23:11
Interesting query because I have somewhat of the same problem, but I gave up trying to make reeds and am still trying to buy ones that are usable, with very limited success since I am in moderately high desert with near-zero humidity much of the year. Reeds made in a humid, near-sea level climate play like bricks here. Even made at 1000 ft lower altitude in the same climate, same problem. At a recent double reed workshop we had a commercial reed maker from a nearby city at lower altitude who had a table. I took reeds I had bought from him to him to adjust and he was amazed at how different they were from what he had observed when he made them, and had the same problem I did of having them go flat when he tried to get them reasonably playable. I know of no solution to this except that the reed must be sourced from a similar climate and altitude.
On topic with the original post, I'm buying Cor reeds that I like the sound of, but they last only 8-10 hours before they collapse, AND even *while* playing they will dry out and have to be changed for the one sitting in the water. THAT is DRY. If they are stiff enough that they don't collapse within a few hours, I do not get the sound I want out of the Cor (and neither does anyone else with those reeds, made "there" and used "here.") It seems that they *have* to be made in a similar climate and altitude before you can expect them to last.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2022-06-20 01:33
A trick my teacher used to do was use pliers to squeeze the top of the staple more closed, in the opposite direction than it would appear you should. That is, flatten the end of the staple that is parallel with the opening in the reed, a little bit (with the 'finished' reed on it) and the tip would do the opposite, open up. It worked, and could be one of those "if all else fails" things to try if you can't possibly make it any worse.
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Author: Hotboy
Date: 2022-06-20 21:23
I do that all the time, especially on student reeds. The only negative is that is tweaks the staple a bit if you plan to re-use it.
Dane
Bay Area, California
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2022-06-24 20:41
I had been in the habit of manipulating staple openings when I was a beginner reedmaker, but I fell out of it at some point. I would consider it a last resort because I do reuse my staples. Thinner walled nickel silver staples like Glotin can reasonably be reshaped on a mandrel but I have had worse luck with brass.
Michael
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-03-14 19:39
This is a really old thread, but after even more studying and watching reed-making videos (and, actually, one success in making a reed without gouging off the tip) -- I think if you tie on higher, when you clip to length, there will be a more robust opening but perhaps wider than you are used to. And I am definitely NOT an expert reed maker, that being laughable -- but I am an engineer and sometimes come up with workable things for people.
On the rounder opening I find that fascinating as to what it could do for the tone quality, and wish I could figure out how to do that, too. One wonders what shaper was used, and I bet it wasn't as wide or flat as the "usual ones."
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-04-10 22:06
I recently talked to someone who was a low altitude humid climate excellent reed maker, who traveled to do a recital in a high and dry climate. She could not get her reeds to work that had been made at home. They were 'too far gone' in a direction that didn't work in the recital's climate, and she struggled to make them play even with judicious adjusting. I'm quite sure that if she had made the reeds in the high and dry climate, she could have gotten them to work, but at the time that wasn't an option.
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Author: Hotboy
Date: 2023-04-12 20:19
"I'm quite sure that if she had made the reeds in the high and dry climate, she could have gotten them to work, but at the time that wasn't an option."
I'm not so sure. I have talked to and bought reeds from makers who specialized in high-altitude reeds. Because you have to remove so much cane to get them to respond at altitude, you must start with a smaller diameter tube cane. If I were to use the standard 10.5mm cane that I use at sea level, they would flatten out after removing so much wood and be too closed to play properly.
Dane
Bay Area, California
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-04-13 05:43
That is very interesting and explains why when trying to adjust reeds to play here they all seem to end up floppy before I can get them to crow right. However, I did just get some 10-10.5 cane to shape myself, and maybe my results will be a bit better. Thanks for that insight. Back when I was studying, I was told to get that width and use Mack Pfeiffer, and when I did manage reeds back then (with help) they were playable. On my own, not yet, but I just got the shaper tip and the narrower cane.
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