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 Reed Shape prevalence
Author: Jim22 
Date:   2017-11-22 07:15

I'm currently branching out a bit with reed shapes, are there particular shapes that are more popular with oboists and reed makers, or is the choice of which shape to use really dependent on oboe, staple, physiology of player, etc. What are the most commonly encountered shapes?

Jim C.
CT, USA

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: jhoyla 
Date:   2017-11-23 12:33

You get more consistent shapes if you use straight shapers (as opposed to the fold-over shapers) simply because of the blade-angle. With a fold-over shaper you can angle the blade and get a narrower shape.

Also when removing the ears, which I do before tying on, you can subtly change the shape with your knife.

There are also differences in how people position the cane on a fold-over shaper - level with the ears, or pushed all the way down to the blade.

That said, I know a lot of people are happy with RDG 1 and RDG -1, Brannen X, and Joshua +2. The differences are minuscule, but I'm sure everyone will say they may all the difference in the world ;-)

Chime in, guys!
J.

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: mberkowski 
Date:   2017-11-23 16:23

I'm a reed novice in every way, so my perspective on this is not of "what parameters achieve the best possible sound for a situation" but rather of "what do I succeed with more often than fail."

I fail often with wide or more flared shapes. At my reedmaking level, I have too much trouble producing an American scrape that stays up to pitch when I've worked with cane that flares into the tip. With English horn reeds, if they flare too much I don't have intonation problems so much as difficulty getting projection and rich timbre. That's probably down to the wider but smaller tip opening. Wide shapes just don't work for me at my experience level.

I sometimes order preshaped oboe cane shaped on the RDG -1N. I find it easy to make consistent reeds on that narrow and not very flared shape, but they tend to sit a little high in pitch and not to last long.

I own a Joshua +2 (my teacher's favorite tip) and RDG 1 tip and they are very similar to each other. I can't produce as rich a timbre as with wider shapes, but I can consistently make reeds that work and last a long time if I start from a 10.0 - 10.5mm radius gouge. They seem like user-friendly shapes, and that's what I need as a novice.

Michael

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: mjfoboe 
Date:   2017-11-23 17:44

To scrape an American Windows reed you need a narrow shape. Even RDG-1n I found insufficient. I suggest a mac+ shaper tip and a mac++ shapeform ... they both give approximately the same finish dimensions.

The only caveat ... is that you need to use a staple shape/length suitable for your Oboe. I play a Maiguax 901 and use 46 mm chariugi 2+.

This combination enables more pitch stability (not flat) in the upper registers and a flexible/easier blowing reed.

Mark

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: Wes 
Date:   2017-11-26 08:36

When I started the oboe, I bought shaped Glotin cane, but was not so successful with that, as I tended to play too sharp on my Loree oboe. A great teacher I had suggested a -2 RDG shape which is wider and I've mostly used that for many years. A 1 or 1N RDG shape is a bit too narrow for me, tending to be a bit too bright and maybe less stable. Good luck!

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: mschmidt 
Date:   2017-11-26 09:13

Mack + works for me.

Mike

Middle-Aged Amateur


Post Edited (2017-11-26 09:13)

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: ckoboe777 
Date:   2017-11-30 23:39

Isn't the Mack wider than the RDG -1N? The RDG -1 is supposed to be similar to the Mack+, and it's noticeably wider than the RDG -1N.

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: EaubeauHorn 
Date:   2017-12-10 00:31

For the first time I feel like a complete idiot here. What is a straight shaper as opposed to a fold-over shaper? Every shaper I've ever, ever run into, you fold the cane over the top (so the middle, lengthwise, is by the ears) and I can't imagine what a straight shaper would be. ???? I have never seen anything that matches the mental picture I get of a straight shaper as opposed to a fold-over shaper. Someone please fix my thinking!!

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: oboist2 
Date:   2017-12-10 01:09

A straight shaper is basically a machine that has a shape template laid in the bottom of it, and two blades at the side. You lay the piece of cane ober the top of the template, lower a clamping mechanism over the top of the cane to hold it in place ( and it usually puts a centre score on the cane so you can fold it when you finish, You then grab a handle to which is attached the blade, and move the blade back and forth to shape the cane. There are various makers who make them. I use a Reeds n Stuff machine. They also make a wide range of shaper templates (forms) that can be interchangeable depending on your preference.

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: borris 
Date:   2017-12-10 01:09

Like this: http://web.archive.org/web/20161009020824/http://www.oboe-shop.de:80/en/shaper-2573.html

Or like this: http://web.archive.org/web/20150518081556/http://www.oboe-shop.de:80/en/hortnagl-shaper-314.html



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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: EaubeauHorn 
Date:   2017-12-21 22:18

Thank you. That pretty well fits my mental picture. I had no idea such a thing was in existence, having never seen one.

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: mjfoboe 
Date:   2017-12-23 19:43

I have used the Rdg -1 and Rdg -1N shaperforms (machine) .... The Mac++ or Mac+ is narrower.

Mark

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: ckoboe777 
Date:   2017-12-26 09:16

Strange... I've compared the handheld versions of the RDG -1N and the Mack+, and the RDG-1N is noticeably narrower. Also, the Forrests and Westwind shaper tip width charts (both available on each respective site for each vendor) indicate that the RDG-1N is quite a bit narrower than the Mack+.

-ckoboe

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: jhoyla 
Date:   2017-12-26 12:14

There is a whole science here, and maybe Bob Hubbard of Westwind will weigh-in here. Just measuring the width of the shaper tip under the ears is only part of the story.

The best way to figure out the essential lines of a shape, IMHO, is first to work out where the top of the thread would lie. That is usually around 3.7 mm width. From there, you need to figure out how long your final blade length would be - usually, 23 mm or so. The width at THAT point is the width of your reed, but that is not the whole story!

The more "flared" the reed is, the tighter it will seal - a gross generalization, I know, but you can do the mental experiment of trying to seal a shape with perfectly parallel sides to see why. The outside curvature and wall-thickness of the staple tip, together with the angle it subtends to the blades, are also large factors here.

Flared reeds don't sound as good as ones with a bit of "belly" to the shape, but these are harder to seal perfectly to the tip. leaky reeds do not play well.

One final point; The easier a reed plays, the better you will sound - even at the expense of tone. Music is always the whole package, not just an ethereal sound.

J.

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 Re: Reed Shape prevalence
Author: mjfoboe 
Date:   2017-12-27 04:03

Here's the Link to Reeds 'n Stuff Shaper Forms Chart.

Shaper Tips and Shaper Forms do vary.... and I have found them to be not identical in measurement.

https://www.reedsnstuff.com/en/shapingmachine/shaperforms/

Mark



Post Edited (2017-12-27 04:05)

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