 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-09-08 06:11
Hi all,
I'm getting back to extensive oboe playing after a 12+ year absence and trying to become self-sufficient at reedmaking. Through college, I only got 95% there as my teachers always seemed to say "What's that garbage you're playing on?" then grab my read and fix it with 2 or 3 scrapes...
Family responsibilities, work, & rehearsal schedules leave me without time for private lessons, so I've been trying to go it alone with a success rate of maybe one mediocre reed per 4 I attempt (and 3 unusable). Internet information is so much more plentiful now than 2001, and youtube is incredibly helpful; they've gotten me out of some situations. But an issue I've encountered a few times without finding a solution: unwanted extra screechy partials on high notes.
Sometimes I can get a good 2 octave C crow that doesn't seem to have extra noise, and the reed will have good response, low & middle range. But the higher register will include partials way out of whack - shrill, buzzy, whistling above A. I've had success darkening an overall shrill reed by scraping near the top of the windows (should've mentioned - American long scrape) but this makes little difference on the reeds in question. Clipping the tip, trimming corners, thinning sides of the tip don't help and it doesn't seem like the tip is at fault as strange as that sounds.
I match proportions to old reeds made by past teachers. They're tied on straight and I can't see damage to the staple. My current batch was shaped on RDG 1. I tend not to blend much between heart & windows. The blend is an inverted V to the tip (and I find the steeper, more defined I make it, the better low response I get).
So does anyone have a suggestion as to where I might try to scrape to these to rescue them, or a guess as to what could be causing it if they can't be saved? Thanks for your input.
Michael
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-09-08 22:57
Although I can't say what your problems are exactly, it may be that your reeds are too hard. I was in a similar situation a while ago, when I took a hiatus from practice for a few weeks. During that period, my lips became a lot weaker, and I couldn't playthe high notes well. You may need to switch to lighter reeds at the moment.
-ckoboe777
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-09-08 23:18
Interesting theory, but I don't think it's that; they're generally pretty easy blowing. I've been playing daily again for a year now, and I went through a 3-4 month period where I played on embarrassingly soft reeds, which were correspondingly closed, weak, and thin.
If I think about it, the biggest difference between those and what I've been trying to work with lately is that the soft ones had overly thin hearts. It's just now, one out of every 3 or so otherwise usable reeds will have this high partials problem despite being pretty good in every other respect (for my low standards anyway)
Michael
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2016-09-09 03:29
I am not completely certain what you mean by "extra screechy partials on high notes," but I have noticed that reeds which "chirp" when tonguing above A can generally be tamed by making less of drastic transition between tip and heart. You write that you don't tend not to blend much, and it sounds as if you don't want to, for other reasons. A less drastic transition can also be achieved by taking more off the sides of the heart. Now, you say that you are trying to avoid "overly" thinning the heart, but I wonder if your "embarassingly soft reeds" could be better be made less soft by leaving a little more in the tip but keeping the heart somewhat thinner. This also tends to give more color to the sound--although pitch can be a problem.
Unfortunately, reed-making is an n-dimensional problem and what works for me may not work for you, because your reeds are off in an entirely different part of n-dimensional space than mine are.
Also, do not be embarrassed by the softness of your reeds, unless they are causing you or your listeners specific problems. I have played reeds of orchestra professionals that were pretty easy to blow but had big, colorful sounds. I think sometimes oboists try to be too macho.
A final thought--I just remembered that you didn't blend much for "better low response," and that is somewhat mystifying to me, as I associate low response with reeds that are sufficiently thin in the back. Is your oboe sealing up well? I spent much of the 1970's and 1980's mis-making reeds because I had a leaky oboe. Reeds that require more air are going to better compensate for minor leaks....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-09-09 07:05
mschmidt wrote:
> I am not completely certain what you mean by "extra screechy
> partials on high notes," but I have noticed that reeds which
> "chirp" when tonguing above A can generally be tamed by making
> less of drastic transition between tip and heart.
The "chirp" in my case is sustained rather than transient and manifests as a buzzy whistle.
> A less drastic transition can
> also be achieved by taking more off the sides of the heart.
That seems to darken the problem reed I'm dealing with right now, but did not eliminate the chirp.
> Now, you say that you are trying to avoid "overly" thinning the
> heart, but I wonder if your "embarassingly soft reeds" could be
> better be made less soft by leaving a little more in the tip
> but keeping the heart somewhat thinner. This also tends to give
> more color to the sound--although pitch can be a problem.
This sounds more consistent with a few reeds I've purchased recently. I was taught to produce a very thin tip, practically transparent against the plaque, but most reeds I've bought from various makers have drastically thicker tips.
> A final thought--I just remembered that you didn't blend much
> for "better low response," and that is somewhat mystifying to
> me, as I associate low response with reeds that are
> sufficiently thin in the back.
I've been finding that I'm able to tongue the low notes with greater confidence when I leave a steeper blend into the tip. I do thin the back quite a bit, but leave a defined catch where the back meets the heart.
Thanks for your input--
Michael
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-09-09 20:37
Soft reeds aren't necessarily a bad thing. It's more important to get reeds that you can play without biting or straining. I've heard of some oboe profs who made their students play on really hard reeds, only to give them a habit of biting, which is not good for playing on American style reeds.
ckoboe777
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2016-09-10 09:32
I would think biting is not good for playing on any style of reeds ^_^
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-09-11 02:11
wkleung wrote:
> I would think biting is not good for playing on any style of
> reeds ^_^
Just to clear things up, when I said biting, it meant controlling the way the reed plays with the lips/ jaw. The act of controlling the reed with more lip/ mouth pressure is often called "biting" among American oboe players/ teachers.
That said, I agree that no one should ever masticate their reeds... Unless it is his/ her intention to eat them.
-ckoboe
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2016-09-11 09:34
Could it be that your tip is uneven? An uneven tip with heavier sections or gouged areas that are thinner than the surrounding cane, will encourage cross-vibrations that use these places as fulcrums. This translates to higher "upper partials" and "chirps" (or whatever terminology is in vogue at the moment for unattractive buzzy additions to the tone you are striving for).
The tip MUST have an even, gentle gradient from the blend to the tip and should be fractionally thinner at the corners. In addition, all four quadrants should look the same - same length, same gradient, same thickness.
I suggest you try and even out your tip with an extremely sharp knife using only the weight of the blade. Try and "dust" away the tiny discrepancies by dusting from the blend to the corner of the tip, all four quadrants. This will lower the pitch and you will need to clip - it's all good, shorter tips are longer-lasting and more stable.
A really important part of this is using a sharp knife. If you are having to put pressure on the knife to remove cane, two things happen; you gouge uneven troughs into the cane, and you ALSO heavily massage the remaining fibres of the tip which weakens them and severely shortens their life.
J.
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-09-12 02:34
jhoyla wrote:
> Could it be that your tip is uneven? An uneven tip with heavier
> sections or gouged areas that are thinner than the surrounding
> cane, will encourage cross-vibrations that use these places as
> fulcrums.
This is likely an issue with several of my reeds. I've noticed I have a tendency to overscrape the left side of the tip (I'm right handed) when I do the initial bark removal and rough scrape; on a few recent attempts I've gone far enough to lose some of the left side of the rough tip before I even clip open the fold to be able to see against the plaque. Seems obvious I should probably open the fold and insert a plaque earlier :-)
During later stages and finishing, I always count scrapes to maintain an even number on each quadrant, but it's possible I've already gotten to an uneven state. If it's not visually apparent under a light I probably won't notice.
Fortunately, I learned long ago to keep my knife sharp and while I admit to sometimes adjusting the back without sharpening, I would never touch the tip in that state.
Anyway, thanks for your input. This is exactly the kind of technical explanation I find most helpful.
-Michael
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2016-09-14 14:21
:-) Glad to help!
Scraping in different directions can help even out the troughs. I find it easier to change the angle of the reed than the knife. That way the knife-hand gets to do its usual stroke, while the reed-hand positions the cane under the blade; you have all the degrees of freedom you could wish for ("pitch", "roll" and "yaw").
Think before each stroke of the blade - you can't make reeds on auto-pilot.
I also like to rough-in the scrape quickly at first and then take time refining - often over several sessions. I count my strokes at the beginning (even when taking off the bark) but use only sight and crow at the later stages. That way I know I am refining a well-balanced rough-scrape and not trying to compensate for early errors.
The mental transition from "whittling" to "dusting" is hard to do at one sitting and the cane needs to rest, dry-out and recover its shape before finishing. It helps (mentally) to have a different blade for finishing, though both should be wickedly sharp at all times.
Good luck!
J.
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2016-12-05 08:45
Jhoyla gave some good advice here - when I was a newbe at making long scrape reeds, I often would get buzzing and frying bacon sounds, and this discouraged me from this scrape for a number of years. I went back to it though and paid a lot of attention to get the tip even and this has aided me enormously. I hope that this works for you too. I probably pay more attention to my blend between tip and heart too and make sure that the sides of the heart are scraped so that the resistance is not too much.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2016-12-07 08:43
I my experience, your extra partials come from an imbalance in the reed. Usually the high partials appear on high Bb-C, and imply that the reed is not vibrating as a unit, but as in parts. Usually this comes from an extra long tip or too thin of a tip, followed by too thick of a heart which stops the vibrations from traveling backward to the windows.
My best suggestion to try would be to:
1. Leave a little more in the center of the tip
2. If the tip is over 4mm long, clip it (measured from the bottom corners, not the middle)
3. Lightly dust in the heart just at the top (where the line between the tip and the heart is) by the rails on the side (don't scrape the rails or the spine). This helps the vibrations travel backwards more.
4. If all of this doesn't help, check the width of your rails, and the width of your spine as they might be too wide.
Hope this helps.
coop
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-12-07 18:48
Thanks cjwright for the specific suggestions. Exactly correct that it's Bb-C where I get the extra partials and I do keep a long tip, usually for fear of ruining what is otherwise an okay solo practice reed by building in too much resistance shortening the tip.
I think I have the most difficulty getting the blend from the heart to tip right. I had 3 teachers with different blend styles and I never mastered any of them, but lately am trying my best to model my blend on a few reeds I've purchased. All of them have more or less the Jay Light "inverted V" heart blend, so I will try your suggestion to dust the transition to the tip to loosen vibrations.
-Thanks
Michael
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-12-07 18:53
Thanks for the input, oboist2. I'm slowly improving and managed to produce one performance-quality reed in the past week. I'm putting a lot of focus into getting my blend right.
Michael
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