 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: matt_lin18
Date: 2016-08-17 04:28
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I got some relatively cheap GSF cane from a popular Etsy seller for $2 a piece. I ordered 10 of them to test it out.
I have previously always bought the Rigotti or Loree from Forrests and had no issues, but this Etsy seller's cane I got today was rather interesting. I am wondering if it is usable (before I actually start tying them) or should I get a refund.
First thing I noticed is that the ends on some pieces cane are pointed. Some are flat like normal, some have both ends pointed, some have one end pointed. Is there a reason for doing this?
What about if the fold is uneven? Most of these are uneven and one blade is 2-5mm shorter than the other.
Most of the pieces are also slipped to the left, with 2 of them slipped to the right which is what I am used to. Is there a difference?
Do you throw away cane by visually looking at it alone? There's two pieces with a lot of brown/gray.
A lot of the folds also look unclean. So if I hold the two blades together with my fingers, the top of the reeds don't close and leaves a gap.
Pictures are attached showcasing all the problems.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-08-17 04:33
That looks like a disaster!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2016-08-17 08:50
For American cane, all of that looks minor/relatively normal.
The points at the end have no bearing on the actual tie.
If one blade is slightly longer than the other, it's no big deal. 5mm sounds a bit sloppy though.
Cane with Brown/Gray has no affect to the actual reed.
Regarding the gap, cut off the ears and tie it up. It should only have a minor gap the last 2-3mm. If the sides are loose, take a picture and send it back to the seller.
This cane doesn't sound too bad to me, particularly since you spent $2/piece on it. The lesson here: you get what you pay for.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-17 11:29
You could get rid of gaps by pressing the top of the blades (at the fold) to get rid of the gaps.
The gaps are totally normal. I get them all the time, and some of my best reeds had gaps like that before they were initially scraped and clipped (the gaps went away later in the reed making process). Gaps only matter if they stay after the tip is clipped.
BTW... You said that you got your Loree/ Rigotti cane from Forrests. Forrests only stocks Loree/Rigotti cane that is gouged by Loree or Rigotti, which means that the gouge is thicker than the standard .45-.47, .58- .60, .45-.47 gouge.
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Author: matt_lin18
Date: 2016-08-17 11:47
Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm a high school student I don't need the best cane right now.
Has anyone tried the student GSF cane from Charles Double Reed? It's also $2 a piece.
http://www.charlesmusic.com/cgi-bin/theo?action=product&product_number=1-2-750
I'm gonna tie a few pieces later and see if I can get anything from them.
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-18 00:06
I think getting decent quality cane would save a lot more money than getting cheap dismal cane. A bad batch of cane will yield a lot less. So unless you are still in the process of learning the basics of reed making, an you need practice cane, you shouldn't get student cane.
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Author: oboi
Date: 2016-08-18 02:43
You could try buying cane from Howarth's. A large selection and cheap. Shipping is more expensive, but not bad if it's a larger purchase. I shape my own cane, however. With the low dollar here, I've stopped buying cane from the US.
Unless there are very obvious structural (not aesthetic) defects in the cane, I will shape and tie it on. I'd rather waste time than waste cane, ha!
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Author: oboi
Date: 2016-08-18 03:10
I dunno, but any difference between American/European gouge is still working okay for me. I've been using a very thick gouge, however, and might go for a more normal one. I also use their shaped Glotin EH cane. And I'm using European baroque oboe cane (suggested to me by a NA-scrape player).
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-18 21:54
The quality of the rigotti gouged cane sold by Forrest's is superb, and we'll marbled, but it's gouged thick. You could get your teacher to gouge the cane again for a more American gouge.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-08-18 22:57
Unequally folded cane will only end up causing problems when you start binding it as the longer side will adopt a different degree of curve compared to the shorter side and that will have an effect on the shape of the aperture. Also there's more chance of the blades leaking at the base where they meet the staple.
Whoever made these GSF cane strips probably bent them over the shaper without marking the centre line.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: matt_lin18
Date: 2016-08-19 09:04
Thanks every one. I tried tying 3 pieces and all of them promptly cracked as soon as I wrapped them. I was able to get a full refund for all 10 pieces of cane + cost of shipping.
How thick is the Rigotti gouged at Forrests? It was the very first type of cane I ordered and don't remember much about it. Does anyone what shape they come in? There's only two options - a standard and thin shape I believe. It doesn't mention which specific shape.
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-19 11:02
It's definitely thicker than the .45- .6- .45 standard american gouge... I recall someone who micrometered the rigotti gouge a while ago, and all I remember is that it was thicker than an average american gouge.
Then again, if you have a teacher with a gouger, you could ask him or her to gouge the cane again to a more american gouge.
As for shape, you should shape your own cane or at least get your teacher to shape for you. The shape that Rigotti uses to shape their cane is not in the mainstream league of RDG, Jeanne, Mack, etc. shapes.
-ckoboe
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-23 08:10
Disregard my previous post... The last time I had rigotti gouged cane measured, the center was measured at .62. I've checked a more recent batch I bought a while ago, and they all seem to have a center gouge of .57-.59, and standard mid .4 sides.
ckoboe
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2016-08-24 05:35
Personally, I would recommend that you buy the best cane that you can afford. This is especially important when learning to make reeds. Cheap cane is good for practising your scrape but not much else, and you will not know if you are making good reeds or not with too much variation. I gouge and shape my own now but whenI was purchasing, I started off using Glotin gouged and shaped, but they went through a period where their cane was just too hard and there was a lot of variation ( but this was 30 years ago and it may be a lot better now), then until I started to do my own, I used Rigotti - I found it a little on the soft side for the type of reed I was making then, but it was consistent and I could make reasonable reeds with it, so I used that for 20 years off and on. Do yourself a favour, buy good cane that is consistent, and you will end up learning to make good reeds much quicker.
Post Edited (2016-08-24 06:13)
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-24 22:01
I think the gouge on the rigotti gouged cane is fine. I think rigotti changed their gouge.
Oboist2 I thought that rigotti was on the harder side of cane brands... What do you use?
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2016-08-25 01:48
CKoboe77 - I also thought the rigotti gouge was fine, but when I was using it, I wa mostly making shorter scrape reeds than I do now. As far as hardness is concerned - when I was buying it ( pre 1997) it was considered relatively soft - especially when put against cane like Glotin, whcih was still very hard then. Now I buy tubes and gouge and shape my own - I use Rouche mostly, but my very first oboe teacher imported a lot of cane back in the 1960s and he ordered directly from the grower, and it is not one of the well know ones. I don't know if the grower is even still growing, Even after all these years it is superb cane and that is what I have been using for the last 6-7 years while my 1st teacher is still alive.
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Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2016-08-25 03:23
The Rigotti cane is gouged at .58-.59 at the center. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't .58-.59 thicker than the average short scrap gouge? I know someone who plays short scrape German reeds, and gouges at least .10 mm thinner than the American style gouged cane I use.
Ckoboe777
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2016-08-25 03:31
When I bought Rigotti cane, I never used to measure it - used to buy it and make reeds, I have made both medium and long scrape reeds using the same gouge - It was a long time ago (1997 was when I last ordered it. Currently I gouge .60 in the middle and .45 at the sides and it seems to work well for me when I am using my Rouche cane. The cane my first teacher gives me is gouged to similar dimensions by him, but his pieces are 2 mm shorter overall - so I tie my reeds on to 73 mm and the overall reed length 71 mm on completion.
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