 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-19 16:01
How can I write things like trills and semiquavers so that people that tend to play things in a very mechanical manner play them more freely or musically?
So often in concert bands that are often run by military band instructors, I hear trills played like machine gun fire rather than with the trill coming in after the note has been played or starting slow and speeding up as orchestral players and soloists tend to do, as well as triplets being played broadly and groups of semiquavers being played more relaxed (again starting slow and speeding up) instead of all being played mechanically.
I and others that aren't from a military background have often been told off by some (but not all) military band instructors when playing solos with some bands for 'dragging' and 'not playing the quavers to match the euphonium players' or 'you're slowing me down' - surely the conductor shouldn't be swayed by what the soloist is doing in terms of keeping the tempo, but still have the ability to allow the soloist to play their solo how they want to. Some want everything done to the letter and at tempos that are too fast for the soloists to give a musical performance.
Should I just have the instructions written above the notes in the band parts to instruct those players to play them less metrically or rigidly? And what sort of instruction would be best so they understand what I mean? There's nothing worse than writing out an arrangement and for the players to just play the notes rather than playing the music.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2016-06-19 17:08
I have not found (or heard of) a way to teach musical sensibility to an unmusical person.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-06-20 08:19
Some players play trills like pressing a doorbell button. Some important conductors learn to follow the soloist!
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2016-06-20 09:25
IF you are the band-master - explaining by demonstration is the quickest way, though (as pointed out) not always successful.
If you are not - you just have to do what the band-master requests. I know, it sucks, but a band is not a democracy. You can and should talk to the band-master privately and explain that you would like a little more freedom in the solo without affecting the overall tempo (rubato), and if he is a pianist (and has the time) ask to practice it with him.
In the past I have asked if I can play a phrase with more rubato via private email - because I suspected the band-master might need to look it up 
J.
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Author: Oboelips
Date: 2016-06-20 19:28
That's a tough one. I recall reading somewhere that the speed of the trill could be shown (slower to faster or vice-versa) by the intensity of the wavy line--that is, peaks further apart for slowing, peaks closer together for more intense, or speeding up. I don't think any software will do this, though--this may be a remnant of manuscript days.
I think that people "hear" differently, too. Why wouldn't we? We taste, see and smell differently.
But even with that being said, I think that there is an overabundance of "brisk tempo/presto" playing in music, which is often marked "Allegro". Some conductors don't know the difference between Allegro and Presto. There is an art to playing slower...you keep the forward motion and express in the minute bits of extra time, and the music then "breathes". Some conductors rush through everything like they were late for a train. I know that for me, Listening is far better when the music breathes. You can ask, but old habits die hard.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-20 20:49
Shame not all music had metronome markings as Baroque and Classical era music is open to interpretation where tempos go. Had the metronome been around back then, that would definitely give us a better idea of the actual tempos the composers wanted.
As for trills and band players, most band players that have little or no knowledge of music outside that of band music tend to play trills and other things just as they'd play a Sousa or Alford/Ricketts march or not understand how accented appoggiaturas work when written as a grace note and where to place it.
So as an example, take an arrangement of a Mozart piece for concert band ('The Marriage of Figaro' springs to mind), you'll get the endings of phrases blasted out instead of the volume dropping away a bit as well as the ends of notes cut clean instead of slightly dying away.
Similarly with the attack on notes which can be hard ("TAAAAHHH!" instead of "da-"), so there are a lot of things that the printed music can't convey whereas the band instructor/director should be able to shape the sound as they want and explain and more importantly demonstrate to the players what they want.
One thing that helps is not to listen to other concert or military band interpretations of such works, but listen to an orchestral recording to get a better sense of what the music can sound like in it's near-to-original setting and try to emulate those sounds, shapes and phrasings.
But there are too many things for some players to get their head around if they don't fully understand the concept.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ehafb
Date: 2016-06-21 19:31
I've been laughing at your frustrations. I can see it from both sides where soloists can take huge liberties in their interpretation. At the end of the day, blame the conductor if people don't play musically. I've learned so much from certain conductors on how to play music musically (I'm still learning!!) I suppose it highlights the difference between amateur and professional musicians.
Bryan
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Author: oboi
Date: 2016-06-21 23:11
Even for the most unmusical, I think listening to lots of music of the genre in question should help somewhat in playing musically. A lot of musical style is unsaid but even looking at the music from an entirely technical perspective (note-lengths, dynamics), one should be able to glean how to correctly interpret some markings. Is there an example of the effect you're looking for in another piece? Would having something marked "play freely" help?
There have been times I have also overmarked music, actually writing out the whole trill, in order to relay the desired effect, but that's fairly unproductive.
Seeing these types of problems is why I have hardly ventured into French baroque, as lots of that music is all about the feels ... imagine playing jazz as written. Swing it, swing it!!!! Ugh! Yeah, ask them to think like a jazz player! :-P
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-22 02:47
Being from a Big Band background since I was a teenager, I can tell when other players are new to it as swing quavers are either played straight or very dotted by them instead of swung. And some instructors that have no concept of swing will have the quavers played straight even though the drummer is playing a swing rhythm which just doesn't work at all.
The only safe way around that is to write the music out in 12/8 for players who have no concept of swing, but it looks a mess and far more complicated to anyone that prefers to see 4/4 but with the quavers all played swung. A tenor horn player once complained to one instructor (who happens to be an excellent Jazz tenor sax player) that his upbeat quaver was late. It was a swing feel piece he had the band play - as it's on the last 3rd of the beat, it is late if you don't understand how swing quavers work. I also had a Classical sax player complain that I was accenting the offbeats instead of the main beats and this was in a swing band setting where the offbeats are accented to give it that drive. I've even seen music where someone's written the accents on the first quaver of a group of four quavers, even though the second quaver was the one that should have the accent on it and it was also the highest note of the groups.
I did pick up a bass trombone player recently who is from a military and brass band background that played straight quavers as that's how he saw it printed, even though it was indicated after the tempo marking that the quavers are played swung. The first time I let him get away with it and his section and the drummer picked him up on it, but the second time he did that I had to say something.
Musical style and stylistic playing is something learnt by example and experience rather than something read straight off a stave. 'Rubato' and 'Freely' are excellent devices to give the performer the motivation to play how they feel, but some players simply don't know how to let go even though they've been playing for several decades.
Music theory will show how to write out ornaments from the Baroque and Classical era in full, but they will use all equally divided notes for trills. So a lot of people having being taught the theory will try to play it that way. Baroque trills and Classical trills are very different to each other. Also Jazz and Baroque both are 'blank canvas' styles in they both allow the performers a lot of freedom.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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