 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-25 05:30
I am playing a Yamaha 441 oboe, and the top line F is breaking down an octave unless I really blow hard to force it. I know the first octave pad is sticking a little, but this happens even once it opens. What might cause this? Any particular leaky pads or adjustments to check forto check for? The joint seems to hold a vacuum, but not really great. Thanks.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-25 06:43
Your lower 8ve vent could be blocked with water, so with just the top joint on its own, hold all the fingerplates closed with your left hand fingers and close off the end of the tenon with any right hand finger.
Hold the back 8ve key open and blow and suck air through the reed socket and that should clear any collected condensation in there. Then mop the bore and see if that's helped.
Also listen to be sure you can hear the air hissing from the lower 8ve vent when you do this - if no air is escaping as you blow or you're only getting a vacuum forming when sucking the air out, then you'll need to have the lower 8ve vent removed, inspected (both the vent insert and well) and any blockage removed by someone with the correct tools.
If you can, remove the lower 8ve key (the rocker part with the pad cup and flat spring, holding the back 8ve down while you do so) and poke a brush bristle or use one of those very fine interdental brushes (TePe http://www.tepe.com/uk/products/interdental-brushes/) that's less than 0.6mm into the vent hole to clean it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-01-25 06:43)
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-25 07:38
Thanks, Chris. It's not completely clogged. I was able to hear air moving through it. That's the pad that's sticking, so I'll change it and take a close look at the vent.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2016-01-25 17:32
The sticky pad can be caused by a groove being worn into the cork - and this can caused by two different things:
1. you could be mashing it closed with your side-octave key on your high notes, or
2. Your oboe case is pushing down on that key causing it to cut into the cork. (This happens because the octave adjustment screw is actually the most prominent piece of mechanism on the top-joint, as Chris pointed out to me in the past. A quick look at the velvet inside the case-lid will confirm.)
Or a combination of the above.
If it is your oboe case, you can solve it by placing a stiff piece of card or plastic between the cork and the octave vent whenever the oboe is in its case. I keep a piece of plastic in my case for exactly that purpose.
To fix a deeply grooved cork, take off the key and using some wet-and-dry polishing paper on a flat surface, gently remove cork until only the very bottom of the deeply-cut ring remains - this should still seal perfectly. If you are worried, you can remove a tiny bit at a time and test until your problem goes away.
In a concert situation the paper-money trick works well - take a freshly minted bill, place it between the cork and the octave-vent, push firmly down on the top of the pad, release some pressure and pull the bill out (without tearing). This has the effect of both widening the groove and cleaning any grease that is sticking the key. Generally good emergency fix for any sticky key.
J.
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-26 07:02
Well, I cleaned the octave vent and changed the pad. No significant change in the way it plays. Seems very resistant, most notes seem to pop out pretty well when fingering changes very lightly, but the F still breaks low. When I blow hard enough to keep it up, the F is very sharp when fingered using the side F or standard right hand sliver. Forked F is ok. Except that these reeds are OK on another oboe, I'd say it's the reeds. I'm going to go over the adjustments next.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-26 12:49
I do have trouble with my upper forked F if the reed isn't compliant - must be an acoustic thing. I regularly hold down the RH Eb key to help the upper forked F as the forked F vent only helps to an extent.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2016-01-26 13:41
What is the clearance of your F vent? Perhaps the pad there is too thick and it is not venting properly? compare with clearance of the F# vent.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-26 23:14
Depending on the lengths of the individual parts of the forked F vent and pillar placements, some makes and models (even by the same maker) will have forked F vents that open far more than others and the opening of the forked F vent isn't directly relative to the venting of the rest of the RH main action.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-27 09:16
It's the normal non-forked fingerings that are way sharp. I'm starting to believe it's the reeds again. I think they are still to hard. Working on it. Slow progress. At the moment I am playing on my backup, which is a Yamaha 241. It plays easier in general, but lacks the left F and F resonance keys.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-27 17:16
Only in the UK as far as I'm aware, the Yamaha 200 series oboes are supplied with the forked F vent (as well as low Bb and thumbplate making them dual system).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-28 07:10
I went through the adjustments tonight following Brian Season's article. I use a feeler made out of cassette tape, so a bit thinner and slicker than cigarette paper. It plays about the same, quite resistant, but using a decent reed the F seemed pretty in tune. I'm still not really happy with the amount of leakage in the upper joint, so maybe it's time to send it to a tech or change some more pads.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-30 02:15
Found that the pad I replaced didn't seat quite right. Once I took care of that, the upper joint seems to seal fine. Still leaning towards the reeds, but I'm going to look for keys that might be blowing open, like the g#.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-01-30 22:57
Nope, can't find anything else wrong with the oboe, and yup, it's better with some reeds. I had really good luck getting reeds to play today. i found the reeds played better when i scraped the backs and throats more. On some of the reeds the top line F is sharp and unstable in pitch, but some are fine. In general, the Yamaha 241 plays easier, smoother, and is more stable than the 441, but the 441 has a more complex tone. I think it's almost time to go oboe shopping, just have to generate some cash. Lots of cash!
Jim C.
CT, USA
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