 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-08-30 19:41
Hi Everyone,
After 2 years, I return to one of my all time favorite oboe topics: the Altuglas.
It so happens to be that my Marigaux 910 is in the shop for maintenance, and I got a Loree to be able to play while it is being re-tuned.
To my astonishment, the Loree is a lot more free blowing than my dear old 910. While playing the Loree, at times I felt hardly any resistance and the music just flowed. I really had a zen moment there and then. So I checked the bore, and is deeply grooved! A terrible and ugly sight really. I was now shocked twice in a row.
Anyways, I have some special personal circumstance so to speak. It is now five years after, and I have recovered from 'The Big C'. The whole region of my embouchure took a direct hit in the terrible therapy that followed.
But I was lucky. I recovered completely, no scratches - at least on the outside. As a result of the therapy, the tissue around my throat is permanently weakened to some extent. Though completely functional, I do need a really really free blowing oboe.
My trusty 910 is over 30 years old, so the bore must be old school and supposedly the quality of free blowing wasn't as developed back then. Actually I'm not sure about this, I have only played on my 910 like for always. But I regularly struggle a bit, being hampered by the airflow. The Loree making this all the more obvious.
So I have many reasons to celibrate life, and after my double shock with the Loree, I think I should consider buying a new oboe, rather sooner than later.
But now my question: As I know some of you have been playing on the Altuglas for a longer period by now: could I bother you to confirm that it is indeed very free blowing? And perhaps you can share pros and cons. Or if you swapped oboes, I'm curious why you did. I love to read eleborate stories about my favorite top of the list oboes - the Howarth XL Cocobolo being up there with the Altuglas.
Many thanks for your input,
Joepie
PS. I was so impressed, that I was about to book an appointment with Marigaux in Paris. Though London is about the same distance from my home. The temptation though ....
Post Edited (2015-08-30 23:05)
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2015-09-03 06:26
I love my altuglas. Very free blowing but enough resistance to blow against.
Only con....and not even that, is the 3rd space C is a bit flat.....however with a change of shaper it has made my sound darker without sacrificing pitch.
Love my altuglas!!!
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-04 19:54
Hi Oboehotty,
Thanks for your confirmation. I'm really glad to hear you confirm that the Altuglas is so free blowing.
Is is much better than you former oboe? May I ask what brand that was, and if it was an older model or new/modern. I am trying to establish what actually sets the Altuglas apart from other makes/models.
I picked up my Marigaux this afternoon; although it improved a bit by the tuning, it is still less free blowing than the Loree. Good news is that the shopkeeper happens to visit Marigaux in Paris next week, and he will inquire after the Altuglas.
He also suggested that I try a new plastic Loree, and he will also have a secondhand Howarth in a couple of days/weeks.
He also suggested the improved Buffet Greenline, but we heard a lot of awful stories about the Greenlines on the form. Still, he said Buffet have improve on the tennons so they won't break so easily.
I guess I'm in for a bit of a treat :-) I get to try a couple of brands new to me, although he won't be able to get a sample Altuglas. It will be a nice experience.
Thanks,
Joepie
Post Edited (2015-09-04 19:57)
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-05 04:33
I forgot to mention that my teacher actively helps me to pick a good oboe.
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2015-09-07 04:38
Have you considered sending your Marigaux back to its birthplace for repair -- in that I mean the Marigaux factory? I would assume the best people to address your issues and concerns maybe those who made it. Given your location, it is the first place I would send my Marigaux for any repairs.
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-09-07 05:52
I sent my 901 oboe back to Marigaux for a repair that local repair people could not do. I had a extremely positive experience! And the turn around was only ten days. Marigaux is a great company with wonderful people.
Mark
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-08 23:44
I never thought of that! What a splendid idea. I guess it would be easy for me to send it off to Paris.
But I'm not sure it's broken in some way or another. My teacher has tried my oboe on several occasions. She says that it works as it should, it just sounds and blows like a 30+ year old oboe does.
I was taught that the modern oboes are more free blowing as a lot of research went in to that quality of oboes these past few years. My teacher has explained it has something to do about the diametre of the bore etc. Have you heard of this before?
Anyways, it went to the repairshop last week to have some tuning and tweaking done. One valve was a bit sticky and two pads were replaced. This didn't improve the resistance much though. Can it made to be more free blowing? I should ask Marigaux perhaps.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-09-09 01:31
Local repair people do not/may not have the tools (reamers) to repair the bore. Each Oboe company has their own set.
Mark
Post Edited (2015-09-09 01:33)
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2015-09-10 02:50
Agreed to everything Mark has said
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-09-10 11:47
My late oboe mentor would sometimes find an old oboe that was resistant to blow. He said that he would do a very slight enlargement of the top end with a drill bit and that that fixed the problem. Perhaps the factory would look at that. It is possible that the body of the oboe shrunk a tiny bit, making the top end a little too small. The factory should have specifications on the bores for years back. Good luck!
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-12 23:09
Hi thanks for all the answers, you really helped me with this problem.
I've mailed Marigaux about repairing the bore, and I am very curious to find what they will answer.
I did consult my teacher, she advised me to get a new oboe if this repair turns out to be pretty costly or risky. The oboe can be traded as it is still quite valuable. The sound is good, keywork is solid, you just need to have professional stamina and breath support (not sure if that a correct translation) to play it well. It is good to play a concert on it, but her opinion is that the current airflow will stay too much of a hamper for me.
She gave me her Marigaux to try, and hers suits me a lot better, and I can play on it for a longer time without tiring much.
So I hope to hear from Marigaux next week, and will take it from there. It would be great if they can repair this at an affordable price :-).
Fingers crossed!
Joepie
Post Edited (2015-09-12 23:12)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-09-13 04:16
Good Luck~! If not treat yourself to a new instrument.
Mark
Post Edited (2015-09-13 04:17)
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Author: Hautbois Marigaux
Date: 2015-09-17 12:25
Dear Joepie,
We have carefully checked but have not found your request regarding your oboe. Where did you send your message to ?
In order to assist you and find the best possible solution, please send it again at contact@marigaux.com
With best regards,
contact@marigaux.com
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-17 21:23
Hi Hautbois Marigaux,
Thanks for replying in the forum. I sent it to Anke, with whom I communicated by email in the past.
I have now sent the mail to the address that you indicated.
It is great to see that you take time to participate in the forum.
Joepie
Post Edited (2015-09-17 21:36)
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-09-22 01:59
Congratulations on beating cancer first of all and continuing your musicianship. That is truly something to be proud of.
I think Loree overall is an inconsistent maker, and the AK bore sounds like a reed trumpet.
For a very freeblowing oboe that has great response, flexibility of timbre as well as very easy to adjust pitch is Rigoutat. There is some natural brightness to them, but again, it is a very free and flexible horn so that can be used to your advantage (as I do a lot because of orchestral playng) or dampened with a thicker reed.
I think it would be a really good way to go for you to have an oboe that is VERY easy to play (with respect to it being... an oboe) and is still gonna give you a quality sound. The Symphonie model is abysmal, but the Rigoutat Expression (more freeblowing, slightly brighter) and the J model (a little stiffer but not too much, like a cross between a Rigoutat and a Marigaux) are both wonderful.
Also, it is worth mentioning, the RIEC semi-professional model is AMAZING and you really can't get a better instrument for the price. It's what I currently play on and there are VERY few limitations. I can pull a double A out of thin air followed by 5 consecutive, tongued low Bb's and none of them crack. It is an amazingly playable instrument and has a sound and dynamic capability of both pulling you in to the stage on the edge of your seat, as well as hitting you right in the soul at the back of the auditorium. Just an amazingly flexible oboe. Just make sure you get one made after Phillipe took over. He no longer services the instruments his father made, and those models are VERY bright. A complex sound, but very old school France for sure.
Congrats on not letting some dumb old cancer take your musicianship from you! That's amazing. I was told I would never play again due to a bad hand injury, but that doctor was wrong and I have recovered almost fully. It sucks when you think you are gonna have your music taken from you.
Again, very impressed by you. I suggest going with a Rigoutat, and unless you're wanting to play professionally still, I think the semi-pro RIEC would be everything that you need and more, as well as really give you the qualities you need from an oboe.
Hope this helps!
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-26 19:33
Hi OboePrince,
Thanks for your support, it was really quite an ordeal. I'm by no means an expert, having had only my personal encounter. But this is what I can share.
The concept of having cancer is hard to grasp and depends from one cancer to another. You cannot understand what it is until you have it; much like you cannot know what it really is to be a parent, until you actually do. Your brother or sister may have children, and you may be very, very fond of your nephew or niece. Holding your own child will be a superlative to this, you cannot begin to comprehend beforehand.
And that is a good thing. I hope you never come across it, and never have to deal with cancer. Anyways, having been literally brought to the cusp of live and death, and being allowed to return is a permanent life changer. I don't hate having had cancer, in many ways it improved my perception of life, and my priorities changes for the good. I just count myself very lucky.
Personally I think surviving is a matter of chance more than anything. Even the physical superman/woman can be reduced to a physical wreck, I know I was. Only the mental fight counts, but in the end you have no say or influence whatsoever.
As for music, I wanted to pick up my oboe before I wanted to do anything else, long before even contemplating returning to my day job. I was much too soon, as the results of the therapy didn't allow playing for quite a while longer. I guess I have my priorities right :-).
Back on topic: I will keep your recommendations under consideration. But first I will send my Marigaux 910 to Paris, I am in contact with Marigaux, and am preparing to send it off soon. Next is trying professional oboes of other brands like Loree and Howarth, maybe Rigoutat if I can find one. On top of the list is still the Altuglas :-).
Joepie
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-09-27 20:29
Oh I am so sorry it dounded like I said I know what you've been through.
All I know is what it is like not to be able to play, and it sucks. I'm sure it sucks on so many other levels. Didn't mean to imply that at all. Forgive me I have a young tongue. I'm working on it.
I just think that if what you're going for is more freeblowing (Especially given that you already have a couple of really nice Marigaux's) I think Rigoutat is something to look at and they are not that hard to find. Howarth is great, that night be what I upgrade to from my semi-pro. I'm looking at Marigaux and Loree and Rigoutat pro's and Covey as well. Howarth is pretty freeblowing too. If you like other woods, which it would seem you would, their Cocobolo has a super light feel.
I just kindof have the feeling that if I were gonna own 3 oboes, one would be a Rigoutat or MAYBE a Loree (they don't agree with me), one would be a Covey or Howarth, and one would be a Marigaux.
I just don't get why you'd wanna have 3 Marigauxs I guess. They are great but I would want that freedom of chinging characters all the time if I had 3 horns.
Plus my opinion is slanted because I abhor composite and I am not crazy about Altuglass/Acrylic either. Of course, with someone like Marigaux or Rigoutat they are gonna do it WELL (As opposed to the greenline, which is a nightmare of Epic proportions), but I think wood instruments should be wood. They just sound less like an oboe when they aren't.
I really hope this helps. I am really happy for you.
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-28 22:51
Hi OboePrince,
I think you mistook my intention just now, I meant no such implication, nor did I take your message as such. Young tongues are meant to be just that, young. So please talk freely, I took no offense whatsoever.
I did want to show a different perspective, that being a survivor of cancer is not an achievement of my own doing. I even wonder if it is an achievement of my doctors, as they (10 doctors maybe?) collectively didn't know what would be the outcome. It was a feast of statistics as I call it. I felt like an experiment at times.
What sets cancer apart from most maladies, is that it can kill you, and will if it isn't treated. But I'll be the first to admit that you can be worse off if you lose an arm or a leg, or in your case your hand injury. Though many do not escape cancer completely unscaved, many are able to pick up life and continue to do the things still as they are used to.
So again, thanks for your support, and I hope you can see that I'm trying my best to not come across as condescending or an expert of any sorts. That would be so opposite from my intention, but this being so difficult a topic....
Joepie
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-09-29 06:32
No you don't at all! It is a heavy topic!
But I just feel, that as a young oboist who's DREAM is to own 4 or 5 oboes (and be good enough to justify that!) and I would want several makers. We are all different creatures. I would definitely want a Marigaux (I'm really struggling with what to pick for my first pro horn, It's between a Rigoutat J, Howarth, and Margaux) but I would want other things for other colors as well. My semi-pro rigoutat is SO easy to project and give character and color. And is a very freeblowing.
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-09-29 15:35
Just a small update:
My oboe is enroute to Paris, expected delivery is Thursday 1st or Friday 2nd of October. This Friday I will be able to pick up a new Loree Etoile, and hopefully a Howarth (XL?), and have requested a trial period of one week.
Should the tuning turn out to be complex or if choices have to be made on the spot, I will probably visit Marigaux in Paris by the end of October for some extra tuning and hopefully I can try the Altuglas.
After all this, I will have a better picture which way I need to go. Can the Etoil beat the repaired/retuned Marigaux? How will it hold up to the Altuglas? It will be very interesting to find out.
Joepie
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-09-30 07:12
I've played on an Etoil while my RIEC was in the shop. I was far from impressed. The sound wasn't abrasive but it was limited in dynamic range and very brassy near the top.
But, this one was also VERY old. So, there is blowout.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-09-30 08:25
While I haven't played a lot of Lorees, all that I've tried have played well and my AK bore 2005 model does not sound like a reed trumpet, as suggested above. It is not much different than my regular bore Loree.
A gold plated 1990s Rigoutat I owned for a while was well tuned and easy to play. It seemed a bit bright and I sold it because my Lorees seemed to blend better in the orchestra I was in at the time.
A plastic RIAC that I bought in a bar for a small cost during a rest break was a very good oboe with a fine sound and good tuning. The cost was low because it had apparently been sat upon, resulting in a break in the middle of the lower joint, which had been epoxied back together.
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-10-01 01:55
Rigoutat is brighter, there is no denying that, but in a nice way. It has a sweet quality, it's not abrasively bright, but it's more for playing solo/principal.
I am obviously biased against Loree's (the Royal bore is better, but they are still so fickle) because of the temperment and I don't think they have enough UMPH. It's very middle-ground, which is fine if you like that. I like to play in extremes. If it's Rossini, it's as bright as I can play without sounding ugly. If it's Brahams, the darkest I can play without losing all my color and going flat.
We're all different, I just don't like Loree oboes. I muh prefer my Rigoutat to even a pro Loree model, and the Rigoutat pro models are all very different and (except for the symphonie) all superb.
Rigoutat also sounded a great deal different in the 90's. I think Roland was still making the oboes then. Phillipe has geared his skillset more toward a modern sound but with the flexibility that people love about Rigoutat.
I would try a Rigoutat, Howarth, Bulgheroni, Mariguax, Covey, and even probably Fossati and MAYBE even a Patricola (and most of those are horrifying) before I would play another Loree again in my life.
BUT, we are all different. I have heard plenty of Loree players with awesome sounds. The horn just doesn't agree with my approach.
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-10-01 05:38
You could also go to Luxemberg (sp?) and try out a Dupin... those are about the finest made oboes of this last decade.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2015-10-06 08:01
Other suggestions: Bulgheroni "Opera" model (especially in Violetwood),
Puchner, Covey (made after c. 2011, especially Honduran Rosewood,
Hiniker (in the event a second hand example should come up for sale)...
Oboes.us
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Author: joepie
Date: 2015-11-04 00:05
Hi, here's a new update. The latest developments are both bitter and sweet.
I have to start with the bitter news: I sent my oboe to Marigaux, over six weeks ago. And I must say that Marigaux have been the best. I have had very good contact with Anke. But there was a problem. The oboe just never arrived. The courier-registry says that the delivery failed, and it was to be returned to me. But it still hasn't arrived. All of this demise is well documented and I would like to stress the point that Marigaux had no part of the foul up. Anke even called the courier many times to ask where the oboe was. But it's been a while now, and I must assume that my oboe is lost. Next week I'll check with the insurance and hopefully this part will end soon. I hate the thought that some sticky fingers might have picked it up to take ownership, but what can you do?
The part that I regret most is that I still haven't been able to try an Altuglas. I understand now that an altuglas is mostly custom made, and I fear to get stuck with one that is still too hard to play on.
Cross over from bitter to neutral: my oboe was insured, and I have a formal appraisal. So financially this shouldn't become a problem.
Now for the sweet part: I was able to try new a Howarth XM for a week, and it is very free blowing. The wood is stunning. The keys are solid, and it plays like a dream, the scale is much more even than on my Marigaux. The sound is great. It suits me well, though it is very different from Marigaux. Not dark but bright.
I was also able to try a new Loree Etoile. The Etoile sounds beautiful, really beautiful. However it was just a bit less free blowing especially in the upper register, so I opted for the Howarth. I will keep hold of this one for at least a couple of years.
And after a couple of years from now, maybe I will travel to Paris (no more sending oboes) and try an Altuglas firsthand. I came close this time, but will have to postpone and perhaps return to Marigaux altu on another occasion.
Joepie
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