 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-04-23 05:54
I have two oboes: one about 70 years old P. Gerad and another 55 years old Rigoutat. The top joint of Gerad was cracked very badly so I had A. Laubin made a replacement in 1967. So it is a combination of 48 year old Laubin and 70 year old Gerad.
Both have the same tendencies of having 2nd octave E,D, and G sharp. But the Rigoutat is worse, about 30-40 cent sharp. It is definitely beyond my lipping range when my lips are tired. I can lip tune Gerad most of the time. It appears that age alone is not the cause of this phenomena.
Once of old friends, clarinetist told me the similar story about old clarinets. Very similar.
I have heard some people say that the age of oboe does not matter. Those are usually the people who sell older oboes. They have the vested interests in that opinion. Leon Goossens played on one oboe for his entire professional life, over 60 years, which is an wonderful anecdote for their claims. I am not sure how true that is. I guess it all depends.... But on what?
Anyone has any thoughts or experience with this?
Post Edited (2015-04-23 05:59)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-04-23 16:57
I've heard the older Rigoutats were designed to play sharp up top - all the older Rigoutats I've worked on have this tendency and it's up to the player to control them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-04-23 22:13
If this sharpness has increased over the years ... it might be the bore has changed/warped.
Mark
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2015-04-24 10:59
It may be worth having an oboe repair specialist re-voice/re-tune the instruments for you.
This process is usually not expensive. About half a dozen oboe specialist technicians in the US can accomplish this task.
I recently sold a Loree oboe made in 1918 (KK series) to an oboe professor friend of mine. This oboe has all the modern professional key-work, except no 3rd octave key (left F was added).
This oboe was played professionally most of its life, though meticulously cared for. Most of the original bore polish was still intact, and the bore is in amazing condition, straight, true, and without any signs of damage. The sound of this oboe is ethereal. I surmise that this instrument still has lifetimes of music left to play...
Oboes.us
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-04-28 19:08
I am shipping it to Rigoutat for re-tuning and re-voicing. Not sure it is possible to do so without inserting a liner, neither am I sure how much it will cost. I will post when I hear back from them.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-05-18 22:01
Rigoutat finally received my oboe but I cannot communicate with Céline who is the office administrator. She absolutely does not speak English. She kept repeating "It is too old!" She said something that seemed to indicate that Philip will be back next week. I told her "I speak Philip, next week, OK?" She said "OK."
The saga continues...
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-05-21 01:54
A big surprise....!!!
FedEx charged me $500 some for import duties, which my credit card company declined to pay. Or I would have instructed them to decline to pay, if I knew of the charges. I am dropping FedEx account. They should not have my credit card info. I disputed the charge.... Let's see what they say... and what happens next...
What a headache for returning an oboe to the manufacturer for a simple repair!! I hope all the oboists in market for an old instrument are reading this post and learning....
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-21 03:06
Why should you (or anyone) have to pay import duty on an instrument you own and are only sending it back to France for repair work?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2015-05-21 08:21
Was the import duty levied on the USA->France leg or on the France->USA leg?
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-05-21 18:13
Hi,
When I sent my oboe to France for work ... I was advised to write on the outside of the package "used instrument for repair". I also was advised not over insure the instrument in transit.
Mark
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-05-27 10:28
I finally spoke with Philippe Rigoutat. He told me that he does not have the original dimensions of the bore to restore back to. He cannot guarantee how it is going to turn out. I accepted the risk and hope for the best. He will contact me when his technician is done and promised to help me file the paperwork to get the money back from the French customs. The saga continues.... Wish me luck...!
What a trip...!!!
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-06-07 20:39
My oboe finally appears to be "adjusted". It is on its way back to me from France. I am very much looking forward to see how it turned out. I expect to receive it in a week or so. I will keep you informed. I hope I can get the Tax and Duties back from French Customs. I hope US Customs does not charge me Tax and Duties.... What a joke...!!
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-06-11 01:38
I received the oboe back from Rigoutat. Now I know what they meant by "adjusted". Apparently left low B was bent during shipping. They adjusted back to normal working condition. They have done absolutely nothing about tuning and voicing. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT!!! My admiration for Rigoutat for the past 60 years is simply evaporating rather rapidly. Philippe Rigoutat is more interested in making money by selling his current models. If you are considering to purchase "old" Rigoutat. Think twice. The factory will not look after you..!! It so far costed me $400 for shipping it back and forth. I may or may not get the Tax and Duties ($540) back from French Customs.
As for heckelmaniac's suggestion for re-tuning and re-voicing.... I am not sure such are simple inexpensive procedures to bring old oboe back to a decent playing condition. It appears that Goossens' one oboe instrument for life story is indeed an anecdote and perhaps an exceptional case story, not a normal practice. Matter of fact I will not recommend anyone to buy an old oboe unless it plays in tune and it sounds the way you like. Even then, you should consider where it has been. Your environment is much different, it will change to settle to your environment. My Rigoutat took about 3 years before it sharpen to a level that my lips cannot adjust. There is a high likelihood that an old oboe is best suited only for decorating a room.
I am here to change my mind if anyone can produce verifiable different experience.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2015-06-11 06:20
According to Howarth, Leon Goossens' oboe was unplayable (by them) when they received it after Goossens' death. They were amazed the man could actually play it.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-06-11 18:31
JRC,
I am so sorry you had a poor experience with Rigoutat.
My experience with Marigaux was the exact opposite~! I had some tuning problems with my 901 and I considered selling the Oboe. However, I was fortunate to have contacted Renaud Patalowski President of Marigaux on Facebook.
I explained my problem to him and we entered into a good and very friendly conversation. He suggested two fixes for me and thought there might be a problem with the bore. He offered to fix the oboe at no charge at the IDRS conference last year in NYC. At the conference the oboe's problem was pretty much resolved even without his reamers. He then offered to finish the work in Paris for no charge .. just to send him the oboe. He provided very good directions to how to ship the oboe and what to say on the shipping package. I received the Oboe back within 10 days ... beautifully fixed, adjusted, and even recorked~! What a company.
By the way Mr. Patalowski is also a really nice guy to hang out with.....having such an opportunity at the IDRS conference.
Mark
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-06-23 06:36
Good News!! Indeed...
I gave a visit to John Symer near Philadelphia. He took care of my pitch problem for nearly nothing. What an incredible oboe magician! He put the Rigoutat factory to shame in no time.
He now represents Mönnig oboe. He had 155 AM and 150 AMB for trials. I liked 155 better. 155 was mellower than 150. They are like Mercedes Benz manufactured Citroën. Extraordinarily balances and consistent tone and intonation throughout the range, from very low to super high notes, every single notes!! Remarkable balance! Unbelievable stability! My French reeds produced sweet fruity bright sound as I would expect from Rigoutat Classic. My German reeds produced chocolaty dark sound the way I intended. I am pretty sure American long scrape reeds would respond well. This was totally unexpected. I was particularly impressed with the tone hole inserts on 155. Every tone hole was fitted with granadilla insert placed in cross grain orientation. Any crack would stop at the insert. What an idea!! And it is now moderately priced.... around Loree range. I am sure it will demand appropriate pricing (meaning much higher) once its name is established in the U.S. market.
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