 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2015-01-20 22:14
I am a 73 year-old who played in grade school, high school and then one year in my 30s. I have tried to pick up the oboe again as a hobby with the goal of playing with a good community band made up of mostly band directors and music teachers.
I have not been able to buy or make reeds that I can play in tune with any certainty. I simply cannot make a long scrape reed w/o tearing it up. I can do the short scrape that will have good response and dynamics and sound. However at 70 mm, it will be 50 cents flat. If I keep clipping and rescraping, I can get it close to being in tune at around 67 1/2 mm, but that is taking away a lot of cane when using a 47 mm staple. I did buy an expensive American scrape reed recently that played A, Bb and F in perfect tune and was 70 mm long, But the response was anemic, the sound was muted and low D and below was impossible.
Any suggestions will be eagerly looked into.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2015-01-20 22:50
Hi,
The best thing to do is get a good teacher .... if you don't already have one.
Someone needs to look at your reeds.
There are many good books out there and some really good commercial reed makers.
http://bethanyslater.com
Flat reeds can be caused by a number of factors: Check the diameter of the cane you are purchasing ..... if too narrow the reed will open more ... and where you tie the reed on the staple effects the opening. Also what shaper tip are you using ... a wider shape will cause a more flat response than a narrower one.
Flat reeds are a real pain in the A 440~! Sometimes nothing works especially if the reed is flat and hard. When this happens I just destroy the reed and save myself a headache.
Mark
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-01-21 03:24
It is possible that your embouchure is not quite gotten use to playing oboe. All muscles may not be in shape to provide you decent tone or pitch. Perhaps I am quite qualified to say so. I stopped playing in 1970 and picked up again in 2007 when I retired. At first, my tone was simply terrible, every note was way out of tune, and my lips simply could not hold the air pressure more than a few minutes. I was not in shape to play a simple melody.
This was my way to getting back to shape and that worked.
1. I made sure that my oboe is mechanically perfect condition. Did not save few dollars to find a cheaper tech. I went to the best tech I could find.
2. I bought a bunch of reeds from several different reed makers. All different strength in long and short scrapes. I bought 5 each from a many different reed makers.
3. I played long notes (all different key scales) with tuner and metronome at least one hours a day playing time. 30 minutes playing-30 minutes rest and repeat. With metronome set at 70, I played 4 beats each notes over 2 octaves. Then scales practice for playing time one hour (I used Salviani book I.). 15 minutes playing-15 minutes rest. This routine took up 4 hours of practice time.
4. I practiced at least 4 days a week. And kept it up for a year.
5. I was half way decent by the end of one year. I still do long notes and scales at least 30 minutes each before I practice pieces. About 3-4 days a week.
It was difficult to keep this up for a year. Especially for my wife. She set me up in a walk-in closet in one end of our apartment. She could not stand the noise for 4 hours nearly every day. Walk-in closet was great though and depressing to me. It was like anechoic chamber. I could hear every little things wrong with my sound. My wife is a cellist. She would practice in far end of our apartment after closing all the doors between her practice room and my walk-in closet practice room. After a year or so, I began to be stable in my pitch and starting to get feels for what type of reeds would work for me. And more importantly I could reliably tell how my instrument and reeds were behaving. We moved to multi-story townhouse since. Now I have my floor and she has her floor. We do not bother each other any longer.
I am now well pass 70 years old. And it has been 7 years since I restarted. I now enjoy playing oboe very much. My fingers are not as flexible as when I was 17. My tongue is not as delicate or swift. My sight reading is simply in a sad shape. Not sure if it is cataract in my eyes or brain that holds me back from decent sight reading ability. I do better under bright lighting on my music. So, I suspect my eyes more than my brain. Yet, I am more than half way satisfied with my playing. Believe me that is a compliment. I am working on early to mid 20th century oboe repertoire. It took me a year or so to collect the music from that era. I prefer solo and chamber music repertoire than playing in an orchestra or band.
I hope the description of my restart helps you.
JRC
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2015-01-21 03:49
Thanks JRC,
Your comments make a lot of sense. I had been reflecting back on the time between high school and when I picked it up that one season in my 30s - how quickly things came together back then. This time , though, it has been a 40+ year hiatus and considering several surgeries and a bout with leukemia, I suppose there is no quick rebound, even though I don't want to admit that.
robertargoe
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-01-21 09:43
To me, the crow of the reed must be at C with the lips by the thread and also with the lips at the tip, in order to play at pitch easily. My embouchure is quite relaxed and non-biting. In addition, the crow must stay at C when blowing hard or soft in order that the oboe pitch be stable and non varying.
No other crow pitch will work for me and I make reeds that crow properly before trying them. With a relaxed embouchure and reeds that crow properly, one can take a vacation from the oboe and barely notice any change in playing. I recently stopped playing for several months due to a heart operation and it was easy to resume playing afterward.
A teacher that knows how to make reeds will help but some teachers don't seem to want to work on reeds with students. Good luck!
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2015-01-22 04:12
I wish there was one way to properly make reeds, but there isn't. My reeds often don't crow a C, and my former teacher's didn't either. She was in the San Diego Symphony (and still is, to my knowledge). I sometimes have reeds that crow below a C and can be played in tune, and reeds that crow C that can play flat. The crow is diagnostic of a great many things, but the correlation with pitch in the instrument is not straightforward.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2015-01-22 04:15
JRC, I applaud your persistence! Your story embodies what we all know (but few flutists understand): playing the oboe is not a casual endeavor!
(I don't mean to imply that playing flute is a casual endeavor, because you have to be very serious and work very hard to play it well. But the casual amateur has a lot fewer barriers to sounding "OK" than oboists do.)
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2015-01-22 05:32
Here's something that's been confounding to me lately; I can take just about any reed I have, whether I made it or bought it and after wetting it, peeping and crowing it, can put it in the horn and play an A, Bb, C and F and they all will register 20 to 30 cents flat on the Korg tuner - and they all have a proper opening to start with - no way they have too large of an opening. Then I can gently squeeze the tip between my thumb and forefinger for a few seconds, play the notes again, and they will all be just about dead center in tune. But after letting them rest, for a few seconds, they will all return to flatness. The reeds are on the narrow side - say, 6 1/2 to 7 mm wide, and they don't leak.
Of course, my chops can use some strengthening, but the initial attack is still flat.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2015-01-22 07:30
I'd have to agree with Wes on the importance of getting a very good c crow for starters. While some reeds crowing a little flatter or sharper do manage to play pretty well in tune, my best results happen with a solid c crow and one that crows a double octave with a slight predominance of the lower c. It helps eliminate biting and biting is a pernicious enemy of oboe playing. It is extremely harmful.
A couple thoughts... do try to get some time with a local pro player or noteworthy oboe teacher. Even a couple lesson will help and ask the teacher to play check your oboe.
And sorry if this seems a little silly... are you sure your tuner is calibrated to A440?
Modern ones can be set sharper or flatter and older tuners really need to be calibrated with each use.
I saw your post about short reeds on a 47 mm staple. perhaps get some 46 mm tubes and then 67.5 mm would be the absolute shortest I'd use. Some of the softer cane in my supply works best at those dimensions on 46 mm tubes.
Here are a couple samples of softer cane at that short dimension:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OP4Ah7fOJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-HfuALrjv4
A good investment would be the David Weber Reed Maker's Manual.
Lots of great tips and pics about the subtleties of getting reeds working and well adjusted.
Good luck.
-Craig
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Author: JRC
Date: 2015-01-22 19:37
I think it is misguided to point to reeds for all ills. Good reed for one can be terrible to another. One way to test goodness of reed can be simply meaningless to another. In the order of importance, one's skill level, mechanical condition and type of oboe, how one produce sound on oboe, and type of reed one uses dictate problems and solutions.
Religious following of one way or another, especially on reeds and sound, is simply unhealthy, I think. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why there is no oboe soloist in America. Another is, probably more importantly, that it is hard to make living at it in America.
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-01-28 20:36
Kerry Willingham ar reedmaker.com makes really good reeds that play in tune with so little lip work that i can hardly believe it, and if you don't like the reed, call him, he'll send you another that night. They are long scrape, but I am in the same boat you are in. I am actually coming back to playing the oboe at the collegiate level and I have had a 6 year break, it's really hard for me to lip around into tune with the band, and it will wear me out. His reeds play in tune when you play them out of the side of your mouth where you can't adjust because they are so well made.
HOWEVER, he recommends buying "intermediate" reeds if you have been away from the horn for a while. I bought both kinds, I recommend just going ahead for the pro reed, the timbre difference for 3 dollars and a little mouth strength is astounding.
He used to play in the army band, and also went to IU. He was very good at oboe and now he's very good at making reeds.
American Oboist. I currently play on a Rigoutat Riec. She is beautiful.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-02-22 00:25
I don't see that anyone has mentioned the instrument....do others play your instrument in tune? Is it the same one you had back when, or did you pick up another?
I'm of a certain age too, and I developed embouchure dystonia on horn. I had to change my embouchure, and in order to play, I cannot engage the muscles of my upper lip. I have extreme difficulty getting up to pitch with my slides all the way in. So it is possible that lack of muscle strength is a factor in your case, based on my experience with brass embouchure.
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