 The Oboe BBoard
|
Author: jouez_hautbois
Date: 2014-10-16 08:17
Hello, this is my first post but I frequently read the board... :-)
As an amateur who learned on an old plastic Bundy Selmer because it was the only oboe available, I feel that this instrument is now limiting my progression and think about buying my own oboe. I guess I'll have to go to Montreal and try a few, well one day because it's really far from my house! But before I do, I think I need some advice, your experience with oboes beats mine anytime!
I'm double jointed, so for now I use the Etude3 thumb rest by Ton Kooiman + an orthesis for thumb arthritis, even if I don't have arthritis. It gives strenght to my right hand. And still, I have some pain in the arm. Osteopathy helps. I tried the w.r.i.s.t. but find it ackward to move so little, the same for the neck straps, I feel like the reed in being forced into my mouth! :-) The regular thumb rests are impossible for me to bear, and I think I'll try the Kooiman expensive model with my own oboe.
Or course wooden oboes are heavier than my Bundy, so finding an instrument that won't be a pain will probably be difficult! Anyway, since I have a very demanding day job and live up in the North, were winters are crazy cold and dry while summers get wet, I don't think wooden oboes are for me. I know, I should!
I wonder if you know plastic models that have a decent sound, while being ergonomically friendly for my large and too flexible fingers... I dream of a Marigaux Altuglass, but I'm no professionnal and have worries about the weight of Marigaux oboes. Do you have and experience with plastic oboes that wasn't a nightmare to remember? ;-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2014-10-16 10:47
For a few years I owned a plastic RIAC oboe made by Rigotat that had a wonderful sound and feel. An intermediate model, it played like a professional oboe.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-10-16 11:06
Hi Jouez-hautbois. Until I upgraded to a duel system Howarth I played a plastic Bundy Oboe that even had the low Bb. It sounded very nice and it was much lighter to hold than my Howarth which is kinda, like other full Conservatoire systems , overloaded with mechanism. I tried the thumb rest that you mentioned but found that it caused a slightly further reach for my right hand little finger causing discomfort. Previous to trying that thumb rest out I was using a Tom Ridenour rubber saddle thumb rest. I've gone back to the Ridenour.
My Howarth duel system is a S55c and it weighs in at 704 g. This is quite a bit of weight for such a small hand held instrument aggravated by the fact that most of the weight on the right thumb is below the thumb rest owing to leverage. Much worst than the Clarinet.
As for weight I kinda miss that plastic Bundy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-10-16 15:37
Weight is not as much of an issue as balance is.
My Marigaux is a heavy oboe, but I have less problems with my right hand than when I was playing the old Cabart before that.
A well balanced oboe should feel as though the reed naturally drops towards you. If you are using your right hand to push the bottom of the oboe away, regardless of weight, that is going to stress your thumb more.
The other issue is key spacing. If your hand is stressed trying to sit in a position where it is reaching for keys constantly, that is also going to add stress. Quite often the wood is not that much more heavy than the plastic, but plastic oboes tend to have less keywork on them. Keywork can be heavy.
Having said all that, given your location, I would probably recommend a Fox 333 or similar. It is an intermediate plastic, but feels like an oboe, and is lacking some of the keywork that tends to weigh oboes down, without sacrificing the keys you need.
Rachel
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboi
Date: 2014-10-17 00:21
Does anyone know the weight of the altuglas? That's actually one of my concerns if I ever switch to one. My wooden full-keywork Marigaux 2001 is 1lb. 6 oz (624g) according what my seller said. I believe I could feel a bit of weight difference between it and the Yamaha 441 hybrid I had.... not much to concern me. However, it feels like a feather compared to a Howarth XL (which is really bulky).
Your climate is probably similar to mine (mine probably drier). I keep on hearing stories of cracking oboes to the point I think if I were to buy another wooden one, I would buy one that is used, so that it is already seasoned.
I have considerable thumb issues now so I try to keep weight off of the thumb as much as possible. On occasion I will attach the FHRED to the oboe, but I find it cumbersome (and I have to take the whole thumbrest off to install mine each time). Lots of rest between pieces will work wonders.
I also have the Yamaha thumb cushion. It does wonders for keeping the oboe comfortable on my thumb. I've had it for a looooong time and it's still like new.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2014-10-17 09:40
I have a feeling that the amount of key mechanism is as much responsible for the weight as is the material used (wood vs plastic). Perhaps you can look into getting an oboe without the full complement of keys?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jouez_hautbois
Date: 2014-10-19 20:49
Thank you for your answers, you're all so nice! :-)
I keep notes to look for the RIAC and Fox 333, as well as the weight balance. Also, the thumb rests Ridenour and Yamaha seem good but they only make it more confortable for the thumb itself... when the thumb is too flexible and stretches too far, like mine, they change nothing, sadly, well from my experience. I didn't know that the FHRED was tricky to put on the instrument. The WRIST is easy to use and takes much weight off, but it doesn't allow to move that much.
I have been lucky enough to hold an Altuglass but stupid enough to focus on its weight instead of playing longer. :-D I ignore the actual weight, though.
I wonder which keys you judge necessary? My Bundy doesn't even have a low B flat! I would say F resonance key, B flat, 3rd octave key... do you think that other keys are essential? I'm a self taught, but I play in my regional orchestra and am quite limited by my Bundy! We play much Sibelius this year, Finlandia, Karelia...
Also, anybody has tried the brand Nobel? I'm just curious.
http://www.veraquin.com/en/fichesproduits.php?idtype=2&idcat=4
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-10-20 00:19
The third octave key is really not necessary but the F resonance key certainly is. Also a LH Eb and the low Bb. And if the Oboe that you have is a Conservatoire System it would be very useful to have a Thumb Plate mechanism added. This gives you a couple of really simple and easy to use B natural and C naturals, but if you're use to the Conservatoire System, the added Thumb Plate will 'cramp ya style' for a while but you'd soon learn how to use such a Dual System Oboe. Now to the little matter of finding a reasonably priced and well made plastic Oboe with this set up --------------
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-10-20 00:23)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2014-10-20 04:50
In my opinion, low Bb is a must have, F resonance almost a must have. 3rd octave is important but not essential, and the banana key is almost never used. Nobody outside the Commonwealth uses the thumbplate. You should not get that added if you re concerned with weight.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Oboelips
Date: 2014-10-20 22:19
Hi, I too, am very double-jointed (hypermobile). I can touch my forearms with my thumbs easily, even though arthritis is starting to be a complaint.
I found that the key spacing is more important than the actual weight. It helps immensely if I don't have to splay my hands, which are on the small side (ring size 6). But, I don't want to compromise on keys or sound.
I play a Rigoutat Evolution. I use the original thumbrest, but I stick 2 layers of self-adhesive moleskin foam underneath it which keeps my thumb a wee bit closer to my hand, and in general comforts the thumb.
The foam will fall off about every 3-4 years, replace it, and you're ready for another 3-4 years. Yes, I do mean the "Dr. Scholls" type that is used inside of shoes. You don't take it off the thumbrest when you put the oboe in the case, it just all fits in there nicely.
The Evolution, a pro model with darn near everything except a left C#, is lighter than some wood oboes, and heavier than others, but it was made with smaller hands in mind. I also have an older narrow opera bore Loree which is lighter in weight, but for comfort, the Rigoutat wins. I'm complimented on the sound often.
Velocity is always something that I have to work to attain (REALLY double-jointed fingers). The Rigoutat helps with that--it's just "sized better" for me.
I'm in the US, Iowa--hot/humid summers, icy/cold/snow winters. Nary a crack in the Rigoutat, which I purchased Used about 10 years ago.
I would say to play everything you can, and then buy what FITS.
Oboefully,
Deb
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jouez_hautbois
Date: 2014-10-24 00:24
Thanks for the tips. Well, I'll really have to try many different oboes! :-) I'm quite the opposite, I have large hands and long fingers. It was very useful on the piano, but on the oboe it's a pain... I have a hard time keeping them on the keys sometimes, especially RH 2 & 3 when I play C#! I see that most oboes, unlike my old Bundy, have the RH 3 hole wide open! This is why I wish the Kooiman Maestro rest will help. It not only adds comfort for the thumb, it opens the hand... Also, I could get the pinky keys made longer by a technician! It would ruin my chances to resell it though. .. :-D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2014-10-24 10:18
I have large hands, and I had lots of problem with right hand with all of my oboes inclusive my Rigoutat (Expression) which is a light oboe (at least compare to my other oboes), but after I changes the thumbrest to a wider thumbrest on all of my oboes all problem disappeared. I bought the thumbrest from Yamaha, the sort that is original on Yamaha 431, but I think Marigaux 901 has a similar thumbrest.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-10-24 12:09
I have extremely long fingers (a 10th on piano), to the point where I find low B on my Marigaux 901 almost impossible to get to. If I had the money, I'd get it moved. The Marigaux 2001 I tried at ADRS was a breath of fresh air for keywork location.
My thumb sits quite far past the thumb rest simply so I don't break the line of the wrist. It has taken me the best part of 8 years to find a hand position that doesn't hurt in a long rehearsal or look awful, but I am finally there.
I do think it about trying all the oboes you can get your hands on...it is less about the weight and more about the balance and configuration.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: robertargoe
Date: 2014-11-02 19:14
If length of fingers is a problem - especially with the right hand - here is a trick that I have used: Place the right hand on the keys without using the thumb, so that the right index and the right ring finger fit comfortably on the right tone hole keys without bending the joints. Now, if your hands are shaped anything like mine, your middle finger goes way past the E key. Next, cut a piece of cork that's round and about the shape of the E key and about 3/16 of an inch thick and put a fairly large hole in it to allow the E key to vent when open, and stick it to the E key with a small amount of contact cement. Now replace the right hand fingers in a comfortable position and note where the thumb has to be in relation to the right hand without forcing the thumb to fit under the thumb rest. If you can find a thumb rest that is comfortable with this set-up, you will experience new right hand comfort. If you are handy with shop tools, or know someone who is, they can fashion a thumb rest for you. It doesn't have to look pretty to work. My right middle finger is 1 1/4 inches longer than my pinky finger, so you can imagine the grief, I had to put up with some key exchanges before I decided to find a solution.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
