 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2014-09-12 22:47
I am a 73-year-old who is picking up after 4o+ years. Back then, I consistently made half decent long scrape reeds with lessons from a major symphony performer. Now, I am 100 miles from any teacher.
This time, I gave up on long scrape after at least 50 attempts and have tried to learn the short scrape.
I can produce a 69 mm reed that peeps a "C", crows a "C" and plays a middle "C" in tune on the oboe with good response, good dynamics and a good sound. Anything longer is flat. I use both 47 mm and 46 1/2 mm staples.
However, at the first band rehearsal, even though I was in tune to start, all reeds simply gave in and went embarrassingly flat after sustained playing.
I had to simply stop playing.
Any observations and suggestions would be appreciated.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-09-13 12:34
Hi Robert,
I would consider 69 to be very short for a short scrape reed. Most of mine are around 71 (I tie at 73 on a 47 staple), and I suspect that 69 would be much too sharp on my setup, and most of my colleagues use similar figures to me.
A couple of questions...
What shape are you using? Too wide a shape for your scrape might produce the kinds of results you are getting.
What length is your scrape?
What length are you tying at?
What gouge are you using? Keep in mind that the gouge for short and long scrape is very different - the difference in thickness between the side and the centre is greater on a short scrape gouge. Perhaps the cane you are using has been gouged for long scrape reeds.
Just a few considerations at first...I suspect that if the reeds are playing fine but are just flat that it is a gear issue rather than a scrape issue, but it could be a bit of both.
Rachel
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2014-09-13 23:27
Hi Rachel,
Thanks so much for your answer! I order gouged and shaped cane and I don't know enough to specify dimensions. Unless I request differently, he sends RDG 1 shaper size. The gouge is .60 at center and cane diameter is 10.50
I tie on at 73 mm and am careful on leaks. I now start the scrape at 60 mm and after thinning, I have recently been cutting at 69, then I extend the scrape field 3 more mm. giving me 11. With these dimensions I peep a C sharp, crow a C sharp and play an in tune C in the oboe.
Without fail, if I cut at 71, it peeps a B flat and crows a B or A sharp. If I leave it at 71, every note on the scale is flat. I have no idea what transpired the other evening at band practice when the reeds collapsed.
When I was trying the long scrape, I was still flat.
Things are slow to figure out from a distance. When I was in Atlanta, the resources were plentiful.
Any other ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
Robert
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-09-14 12:19
Robert,
The first thing I would do is to buy a medium-soft reed from a reputable dealer and see if you experience the same issues - which could point to either instrument, support or embouchure problems. Do you have no problems playing a full rehearsal on a good purchased reed?
I am not suggesting reed-purchase instead of reedmaking. I make all my own reeds, but occasionally buy professionally made reeds as "data points". I take measurements, play them and get to know their "feel" and dynamic range. This feedback is invaluable when I make my own.
J.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-09-14 15:41
J, I was going to suggest the same thing. Try Nick Winfield from the UK, or K.Ge from Australia/China, I started on K.Ges, and many of my colleagues still play on them.
My next suggestion would be to buy cane from a European/overseas dealer, such as K.Ge or Le Roseau Chantant, preferably with the same specs as the reed you purchase. The gouge is quite different to what a US dealer might supply, and buying cane for short scrape reeds from a supplier who sells to short scrape players might see you have more success.
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2014-09-16 01:56
Also, take your tuner to rehearsal with you. I have played even with fully professional groups who drifted so sharp I couldn't keep up. When I got the Stinkeye from the conductor, I just turned the speaker on to 440. "Oh!" And we re-tuned...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2014-10-04 04:07
Greetings,
I took your advice and ordered three medium soft reeds from Marjorie Downward at Billerbeck Reeds in the UK. I was surprised how easier to blow than what I had been making, while maintaining pitch.
You also mentioned that the gouge, etc called for different dimensions than gouged and shaped cane used for the long scrape.
Since I order gouged and shaped cane from an outside source, would you be willing to advise me as what to ask for, and maybe a source which could supply the gouged and shaped cane.
Regards, Robert Argoe
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-10-04 15:22
I buy my cane already shaped from K.Ge, and they have their own shapers that suit my playing and reedmaking style well (I use their shaper D, which is a medium-width shape). In terms of shape, I would ask Marjorie what shaper she uses, and order cane using that shape to start.
The dimensions of the cane I use are:
*10.5mm diameter (I don't need to change diameter for the seasons here, and in Louisiana I guess you shouldn't need to either)
*0.58mm thickness (a little thinner than typical US cane I think - I used to use 0.56 but I prefer the richer sound of the extra 0.02mm.)
*K.Ge also measures the centre to side difference of their gouged cane - I use a CS ratio of '0.15' (so the side thickness is 0.43mm). '0.10' is what K.Ge uses for their US scrape reeds, so quite a difference there. A combination of the thickness and the ratio between centre and side may have been affecting the pitch of your reeds. The thicker the cane at the sides, the more open the reeds will be, making them harder to blow and likely lower in pitch. If the gouge is specifically designed for a short scrape, the sides of the gouge will be thinner.
I make very consistent reeds that are always at A440 with this combination plus a 47mm staple, tied at 73mm and cut to 71.5mm.
I hope that helps some and has not just made it more confusing!
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-10-05 10:09
@Robert, I'm glad you have identified the source of your problems! Perhaps you can use the purchased reeds as examples for your reedmaking?
Rachel has given fine information. I'll just chime in with one piece of hard-earned advice ..
Find a medium diameter staple of consistent make that you like - and order at least a dozen of them. Give away (or "deep archive") all of your old staples.
The diameter and shape of the staple at the tip-end has an enormous effect on the reed opening, I suspect more for short-scrape than for long-scrape.
Until I realized this I couldn't fathom why reeds with similar curvature and hardness cane, and accurately shaped by myself on my personal-standard shape could have such wildly different openings.
Hard cane on a staple with a narrow and more-round-than-oval shape is almost impossible to tame - it will be too hard to blow until it collapses from over-scraping.
Good luck on your journey to the perfect reed!
J.
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Author: robertargoe
Date: 2014-10-10 22:18
Could someone simply name a Brand and Style of staple, along with a mandrel that would fit that staple and a source ( preferably in the USA - but that might be asking too much - that would work best with the short scrape.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-10-11 07:27
I mostly use K.Ge staples recycled from my days of buying reeds. I use a Pisoni mandrel which is a bit too big for many of my staples but I don't seem to have any trouble with that.
I have just started using some of the all-metal Chiarugi 2s, which do fit my mandrel. So far the pitch seems a little higher and the sound a little brighter, but the overall workings of the reed don't seem to have been affected. This might be good for you if low pitch has been your issue.
I am yet to encounter a short scrape player who makes reeds on less than a 47mm staple, but we may find one here.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-10-11 20:45
I no longer make reeds from scratch. I have excellent sources of reeds at reasonable prices. I like (1) David Cowdy (now he is selling through Howarth), (2) K Ge, and (3) On-line Oboe (http://www.oboecane.net/index.php, a Korean fellow who makes excellent reeds). Price is $25 and up per piece. They all use very hard cane. I buy medium sometimes medium-soft German style in the longest they offer. I just touch up to fit me and sometimes turn them into French or even long scrape styles. Rarely I waste a piece, and I think it is more economical to do so. Now most of my reed making tools are collecting dust in my draw. I do not miss them. I save lots of time and efforts, and all that reed hysteria. I have more time and attention to making music.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-10-12 01:58
Rachel? That would be me. I have been using Stevens thin wall 46mm for the last few years. They play A=442 here. Unfortunately these staples are no longer sold.
J.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-10-12 06:23
Jeremy, that would make my ears bleed! Happy we are at 440, though some of the orchestras are trying to push it to 441 (or wind up there anyway!)
We just had David Cowley here from BBC Wales, and he said he uses staples that are decades old, they are 46mm but he suspects that they were 47mm and someone cut them :0 as his mandrel goes at least 1mm past the end. If someone like him can do it, maybe you have options... :P
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