 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-06-07 06:39
Surely you've seen the Chinese knockoffs of the wonderful Marigaux altuglass oboes...
Has anyone tried any of these? The new ones sell for $2,000 on the auction site, and every time I see one I'm tempted. With some pad leveling and screw adjustments could these be nice instruments, or are they just too cheap to be worth it?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-07 09:49
The keywork on these is the least ergonomic of any oboe I've ever seen if it's like that of all other generic Chinese oboes. They have come a long way on the tuning and intonation in the last ten years or so, but there are still problems there and elsewhere.
Don't even bother with the fully automatic version as they haven't fitted the linkage from the G# key to the 8ve mechanism so that won't allow altissimo F easily as the wrong (upper) 8ve vent will be open once LH3 is raised with the 8ve key held down.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-06-07 23:46
Thanks, Chris. You have seen so many oboes I am sure you would notice subtle differences that many others would not.
In reality I shouldn't even be entertaining the idea of this oboe. In other areas of my life I make an effort to avoid these cheap knockoffs. The allure of a clear oboe with gold keys shouldn't make me abandon principles now! Hopefully we will see something like this from a good maker some time soon, at in intermediate price range.
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2014-06-23 23:25
I have extreme humidity and dryness issues in my house during winter so I purchased a KGE Acolyte oboe. The Acolyte is all plastic turned like a wooden oboe with professional keywork. I love it. I know it's Chinese made, but it is a good oboe so far. The representative from KGE responded to my inquiries in a very prompt way, and referred me to a stateside dealer that set the oboe up for me. I have tiny baby sized hands and the oboe is pretty comfortable for them.
I am NOT a professional - this is my serious hobby. Please take this with a grain of salt.
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2014-06-30 04:54
I just bought a used Marigaux altuglas about three months ago. I bought it to replace my 12 year old Loree. What a beauty....I am never looking back. No more worrying about temperature issues and cracking. Has the darkest most chocolatey velvet tone......
I wouldn't bother with the "mystery" clear horns on ebay. I heard through the grapevine that they are simply that....clear plastic. The altuglas is a clear cast acrylic that is cut much like a wooden oboe is. I don't know the specifics, but I'm sure there is a difference.
Hope that helps,
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-30 12:22
Machined plastic bodies are very demanding to make and are more expensive to make compared to wooden oboes. The risk of pillar threads being stripped is greater and achieving a highly polished finish is also time consuming - plastic has to be worked much slower than wood in order not to both melt it and also to prevent the heat distorting the whole joint as it expands during machining. Also the swarf doesn't clear like wood, so turning plastic bodies has to be supervised so the swarf doesn't wrap itself around the joint during turning as that will end up melting it. So it's go-slow when working with plastics.
The downside with plastic bodies is thermal expansion/contraction which is more pronounced in plastics and the dimensional change is in every direction as opposed to widthways (against the grain) in wood. Plastic instruments are affected by heat whereas wooden instruments ate largely affected by humidity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: darryoboe
Date: 2014-06-30 19:43
I had to look up "swarf". Interesting post. Most of us never consider what goes into manufacturing instruments, we just take them for granted. Thanks for your insight.
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-07-01 03:37
Thanks, Chris. That's fascinating information. We often hear of the risks of wooden instruments cracking, with plastics being presented as virtually unbreakable alternatives. I didn't realize the complexities.
Nonetheless, I am leaning towards an authentic Marigaux altuglas (used) if one ever becomes available!
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-07-01 03:40
Thanks Shawn! My eyes are wide open for a used Marigaux altuglas. I don't think it would be financially responsible for me to buy a new one... but if I sell my current Marigaux 901 and my backup oboe, then a pretty altuglas could be a good tradeoff. :-)
It's so interesting to me that the tone quality apparently depends more on the bore than on the material.
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-07-01 04:14
Shawn, I do have a question about that oboe. It looks like it's from the 2000 series, which has been redesigned from the 901 to be more ergonomical. However, judging by the pictures, the left hand F looks VERY short-- like it would be an impossible stretch for someone with small hands. I have trouble enough comfortably reaching the left F on the 901-- I have had to glue on an extension. Is the left F on the altuglas oboe quite short and hard to reach?
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Author: darryoboe
Date: 2014-07-01 16:06
My cocobolo Laubin has a plastic insert in the top joint. It has the WORST water problems in the B/C vents of any instrument I've ever owned. My theory is that the plastic is slicker than wood so any water that collects runs toward the tone holes. Also, I am in one of those areas where A/C is often kept VERY cold due to our high humidity.
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Author: oboi
Date: 2014-07-02 07:29
My 2001's left F looks longer than the picture on the Marigaux website. Therefore, I've always assumed the my left F was extended, but I am not 100% sure (I bought it used). Mine is grenadilla, but I assume the altuglas one would have the same same key specs.
I'm pretty much leaning on getting a clear altu whenever one goes on the market (I guess I have competition!), unless some other oboe in the meantime catches my heart or something catastrophic (god forbid) happens to my oboe requiring an instant purchase of a new one. Don't know the current going rate of a new altu, and I'm afraid to ask!
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2014-07-03 16:19
Actually the left F is a bit short. I came from a loree so I'm used to a longer one. However I keep reading in the descriptions that the left f is "adjustable". I jus haven't figured out how to do it yet to make it slightly longer. However, I do notice it helps my hand position a bit. I don't have long hands. I love my altuglas and have gotten great feedback on it at gigs.
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-03 16:28
There should be a locking screw on the side of the LH F key, so undo this and slide the touchpiece to where you want it and then lock it in position.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jennetningle
Date: 2014-07-06 22:46
I keep wondering about this instrument - whether you can see the water stream within it and whether that is gross. The visual in my head is not attractive and has kept me from even considering this horn. Anyone have an opinion on this?
Jennet
_________________________
Jennet Ingle
<www.jennetingle.com>
<www.proneoboe.com>
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2014-07-07 11:03
Cast Acrylic is available in a myriad of colors:
clear, black, ivory being be the most popular.
However, an oboe maker (such as Hiniker, Marigaux, Loree, Howarth) could also make a cast Acrylic oboe in hot translucent pink if you so desired.
Tom Hiniker just recently completed a cast Acrylic oboe in jet black, and an ivory color Acrylic oboe may be be in the works. Cast Acrylic must be annealed after machining to prevent crazing. Cast Acrylic is an excellent material for oboe making.
Holds the posts better than other polymers.
Non-annealed cast Acrylic, extruded Acrylic, or injection molded Acrylic- not recommended...
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-07 13:50
How do you anneal cast acrylic?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2014-07-08 00:59
Annealing of Acrylic is accomplished in a computer controlled oven.
With the machined joints inside the oven suspended horizontally on pins, the temperature is very slowly increased inside the oven from room temperature to about 162 degrees Fahrenheit (or so, plus or minus- I am not exactly sure of the exact number) over a period of about 6 hours. Once the target temperature is achieved, it is held constant for about 12 hours. After 12 hours, the temperature is slowly lowered over a period of 6 hours back to room temperature.
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-27 19:49
Just noticed the 2nd oboist in this video is playing a Marigaux altuglass oboe (WDR Radio Orchestra of Cologne - the principal is playing a Fossati 20th Anniversary Soloist model):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4VLc7DYJ8Y
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-11-28 15:27
Thanks for the link Chris! It's interesting seeing it in use!
It's a timely link, just heard this piece on the radio last week, I think.
And drove home today to the sounds of the WDR playing Brahms #1, a recording from 1941 conducted by Furtwangler. Magic.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-29 04:15
I encountered a Chinese clear plastic oboe first hand the other day and have absolutely nothing good to say about it. This one I saw had the word 'Friendly' printed in gold on the bell - it was anything but friendly.
For a start, the keywork is very weak and bendy so adjustments are unreliable, the padding is reasonably good but there are some pads that aren't seated well.
Most importantly and most detrimental to them is the top joint bore is too wide being around 1mm wider at the very top than it should be (this one measured 4.9mm at the top instead of 3.9mm or narrower at the base of the reed socket), so the low notes are unstable and the upper register is wild.
I don't know how the bores are formed on these if they're reamed and polished (which is the usual way, but not very likely in this case) or more likely it's moulded along with the outer shape as it had a gloss finish that only moulding will give or hours of careful polishing could achieve (as I said, that's not very likely). Either way, the top joint bore is way too large rendering them unfit for purpose.
It was also semi automatic, so that's much better than their fully automatic ones as they haven't got the linkage from the G# key to the 8ve mechanism so it's the lower vent that's open when you play altissimo F with the fingering 8ve1 oxoG#|oxxEb. On oboes without this linkage, the upper 8ve vent will open instead and this will make the altissimo F unreliable.
AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-03-29 04:23)
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2016-03-31 22:38
Janet - seeing the condensation inside my Marigaux altuglas doesn't bother me one bit. In fact it almost looks like glitter if one sees it from a distance.
Regarding the questions about persistent water in the keys: no such problems on my altuglas. I have never had issues with water in the keys like I had in my Loree.
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2016-04-01 11:46
For a wooden oboe, "gurgling" in the octave vents and the vents for B# and A# on the upper joint can usually be eliminated forever by treating the bore with "Woodwind All." "Woodwind All" also helps prevent cracking, though it is not a substitute for warming up the oboe joints under arm for several minutes every time before playing. "Woodwind All" is extremely easy to apply, no preparation necessary. Dries completely overnight. "Woodwind All" does not build up on the inside of the bore even slightly, and does not affect the sound of the oboe to any extent whatsoever. "Woodwind All" is good for the pads also. Made by Chem-Pak, and is available by the case (12 cans) from the manufacturer, or by the can from Cascio Interstate Music.
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-04-01 12:17
I doctored my 8ve vents late last year by redesigning them (by soft soldering in a tube and doing several drillings into it) and completely forgot about my croaky upper A-C until I remembered the other week I used to have loads of trouble with them - even in the high humidity summers we have when you'd expect the warmer or hot weather wouldn't be a cause of condensation woes. But this winter I've had a completely croak-free time of it even when cold, so no more sounding like Bonnie Tyler in the upper register for me!
But unstable low notes are usually down to a bore taper problem with the top joint bore being much too wide.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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