 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-05-27 18:49
Hi all,
I am currently doing a season of Hansel and Gretel, which I am loving! Opening night was tonight, and it all went well, except that I have suddenly developed issues with water in my second octave vent which I have never had before.
Started at the dress rehearsal, and has continued to tonight, two days later. It doesn't seem to behave like water you might get in the C or Bb keys, where it closes them over with a bubble, but is more like a crack you might hear when a bassoon gets water in its keys (I don't know if this is normal, never had this issue!)
I have swabbed, used the BG pad driers, and sealed the top joint to blow out the tone hole. It always comes back.
My issue is that the next performance is in two days and I can't get to a repairer before then to possibly clean it out (or perform any other preventative measure). I also don't know how to remove the inserts to clean them out, or have a tool to do so.
What would you recommend I try in order to prevent the return of the water? I am probably comfortable enough to take off the octave key itself if need be.
Thanks!
Rachel
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-05-27 19:16
I'm getting this a lot, even in the summer and it's really p***ing me off. I've replaced both the vents and the wells and still it's no better.
The only thing I can do is whenever I have long enough rests, I take the top joint off and mop the bore dry. Then hold the fingerplates down and seal off the tenon, then suck and blow into the reed socket with the top 8ve key held open to dislodge any water in there and then mop the top joint out again.
Whenever this happens I get really croaky, gravelly top As and Bbs which I refer to as 'it's gone all Bonnie Tyler'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-05-27 19:41
@rachel,
If you use a stand when you're not playing, make sure it is not angled so that condensation runs down the front of the instrument.
Also, wrap your hand around the top of the top joint to keep it warm when you are not playing. I find this really helps!
J.
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Author: Scandinavian
Date: 2014-05-27 20:45
For me, swabbing too often can do more harm than good since it can mess up the water trail down the bore.
If I was in your shoes (and didn't have a plastic top jount) I would clean the octave chambers and briefly oil the bore - then, before playing, breathe into the instrument without reed for a couple of minutes. This is not for warming up the wood, but rather to create lots of water which if you hold the instrument at a nice angle will run straight down the bore without any detours into tone holes. Oh, and also - try putting a bit of grease (not petroleum based!) in the octave chamber threads. Helps keeping water away.
The guy who made my oboe now uses plastic octave boxes and inserts. He claims it greatly reduces the risk of water problems..
Hope you find a solution!
/Johannes
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-05-27 20:49
This usually happens when the air temperature is hotter than the vent. Air condition rooms are the worse. Cold air and warm moist breath a bad combination.
(By the way isn't the Oboe fantastic in the Hansel and Gretel. I love playing it~!)
The other is when there is repeated staccato notes. Combine the two and it is a horror.
Besides the usual swabbing ... if you have a oboe stand with a heavy plate ... try raising the front of the stand a bit -- so that when the Oboe sits on it - it will be on an angle and the moisture will flow on the back side and will avoid the keys. I have my Oboe stand-peg so - and it does help.
Also place the Oboe under your arm pit etc to raise the internal temperature before you play.
Mark
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-05-27 21:20
I think there is a permanent fix for it. An Italian guy designed and sell the vent inserts and guarantees they work. Apparently they truly work. I heard testimonials from some famous people. Very pricey though... in $200-300 range each. I think I have a lot more time and patience than I have that kind of money for such thing.
I save money by sucking air (blowing may work too) through the octave vent holes for minute or so (kinda long...) then swabbing afterward (my swab is relatively lose fit, it hardly rubs). I do this a couple times before the performance or practice. It lasts an hour or so consistently... probably longer. I did not do a research on this. This is a good enough solution for me. It appears to dry the vent holes nicely and it takes a while before accumulating condensation enough to clog the hole again. It works. Try it.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2014-05-28 11:36
I have found that treat the bore with "Woodwind All" (made by Chem-Pak, sold by Cascio Interstate Music) eliminates gurgling in the octave vents and the vents for
A# and B#. "Woodwind All" is easy to apply. No preparation required.
It is OK (good in fact) if gets on the pads. Hold joint level. Simply spray "Woodwind All" into the large end of the joint for about 7-10 seconds at full blast Rotate joint at about one revolution per minute for about 7 minutes. Perhaps three minutes in, yaw the joint in circular motion slowly and repeatedly so that the chemical transits up into the tone hole chimneys. When the entire bore and tone holes have been amply sozzled with the chemical, place the joint up against a wall nearly vertical upright (slight angle) with key touches facing out. Place small piece of cardboard under joint to catch excess. Let dry overnight. I have not had any sticky pads or keys after treatment.
So far, I have not had any problems with moisture accumulation, gurgling or cracking (you still of course must incubate the instrument underarm/shirt/sweater/jacket before playing!) with any instrument I have treated with "Woodwind All." One thorough treatment seems to suffice "forever." Does not build up at all on the surface of the bore. Good stuff in my estimation...
Oboes.us
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-05-28 12:29
Mark, I am loving my part in H&G. So much oboe-y goodness!
I am not using a stand (I find stands a nightmare for water trails). I always hold my oboe on my knee and angle the top joint backwards into my shoulder in rests, which is why I don't understand how the water is getting in there in the first place. Unfortunately, in the H&G score, there are no extended rests in which to swab, etc. I got my oboe back together and reed back in with not a microsecond to spare last night while trying to blow out some of the water!
It's almost winter here at the moment, and we are playing in old halls with no treated air (no AC or heat). It's neither too dry nor humid, it's not overly cold or hot inside...very frustrating!
I remember once years ago I got so tired of my C vent filling with water I tried putting a little key oil on a paper and closing the key on it, in the hope that the oil would repel the water. I know this is also a remedy for sticking cork pads. It was actually successful. I am a little more worried about doing this to the octave vent given the vents are made from metal and much smaller...if anyone has tried this, let me know!
I will remove the key tonight and attempt to clean the tone hole. Would surgical spirit be okay for this job (I don't know if that has an equivalent name, but my dad uses it for cleaning electronic parts such as remote controls), with a Q-tip?
Thanks for your suggestions so far.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-05-28 15:40
Hi,
A repairman once put a drop of oil in the vent. It did repel the water.
However, I don't know the type of oil or the amount or tool he used to inset the oil.
I must admit I was skeptical at first. I do not know if this is common and/or good practice to do?
Mark
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-05-28 15:47
Resting your instrument against your shoulder exposes the top of the instrument to every stray breeze running past. Perhaps you can try to use your lap and to wrap your hand round both octave vents most of time you're not playing.
Don't forget to unhook the springs before removing the key. Use the opportunity to clean and oil the steel and hinge tube.
find some monofilament of the correct diameter to poke dirt/deposit through the hole and then swab it out through the reed-well. Don't use a pin, you risk laying a rust track.
Removing the vent from the seat requires accurate and powerful use of a purpose-built tool which I assume you don't have, so try all of the above first.
J.
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Author: Oboelips
Date: 2014-05-30 21:37
I always take about 1/2 inch-worth of water in an eyedropper, hold my oboe at 30 degrees, and release on the thumb side of the bore before playing a single note. The water/condensation gravitates to the water put in the bore by me, and I no longer have water problems. Learned this at a Master Class. I used to have lots of water problems, and this solved them all.
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