 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: MarcAZ67
Date: 2012-02-08 20:54
Hello everyone,
I've been a lurker here for a while but have finally joined so I could ask all of you for your wisdom and advise. I'm especially interested in those of you that play a Yamaha 841, but to everyone really.
My brief story is that I am a conservatory-trained oboist (schooled late 1980's) that quit for many years and now miss it and want to start playing again. Sadly (I think?) I sold my Loree and have had a Yamaha for five years. I really do like how free blowing it is but have always had challenges with playing in tune across the registers. Not that I've made thousands of reeds, but it seems that below middle A my pitch sinks. and not just on my reeds but on a few I've purchased. I've played on Gilbert -1, Robinson, Sampson +1 (I think), and a Lucarelli shape. I don't know about the bought reeds, but I've been using Stevens Brass #2 thin wall 46mm staples.
I would swear by watching the tuner and the way the pitch seems to dive below A ( like the bottom drops out of the oboe) that I have a crack. My top joint is a bit grainly, but my expert local repairman (David Weber) on last inspection said I have no cracks. And I am able to do the lip suction test and it sticks! When I play I lip up or blow up the pitch, but I really don't want to do this anymore
So yesterday I did an experiement..I pulled out my very old Loree tubes and made a Gilbert -1 reed and though not fantastic, it seemed the pitch was overall higher (a little too high) BUT the sound felt very constricted and I had to push hard. But The Stevens tubed Gilbert -1 reeds feel very free blowing and I can get a bigger sound and I don't want to lose that.
Long sob story short.. I don't know if my oboe is just "funky" and my style leads me back to Loree (am considering this), but the tube observation makes me want to experiment with something in size between a more open Stevens and a more constricted Loree tube for use on the Yamaha. Especially wonder what any 841 plays use as their setup?
Wow - then I saw those o-ring staples. Oboe Technology has changed since the late 1980's...and the prices too!
thanks for reading,
Marc
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-02-08 23:26
... yeah, and the prices, too! My oboe hey-day was in the 80s, or maybe that was when I was just enjoying the most fame.
I took a 7 year sabbatical and then took it up again, like you.
Be patient with yourself; I have a feeling that when you and the Right Instrument come together, you'll be better than ever.
GoodWinds
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-02-09 00:42
you won't get an offer for a better resource, MarcAZ
GoodWinds
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2012-02-09 16:31
Not to threadjack, but Cooper, you're in Mesa?!?!? My tour was just in Mesa and we're coming back to Phoenix for a week starting next week!
*back to Yammies, staples and reeds, oh my!*
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Author: MarcAZ67
Date: 2012-02-09 17:04
Cooper...thanks for the invite and would like to meet you. I will send you a note - I live in Chandler. and I see you went to NEC and so did I. talk to you soon
so, any Yamaha folks out there or any general advise?...I know, keep trying different stuff.
Marc
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2012-02-09 23:30
I just started playing on a 2001 Yamaha 841 last week. I came from a 2001 Fox 400. I'm noticing that the Fox was a bit flat compared to other oboes I tried. Kind of an overall flatness that caused a different reed style. I've basically been adjusting my reeds to play on my Yamaha to be a little softer than what I was used to (which is mostly normal measurements). I play mostly on a Brannen X shaper and 47mm tubes, tied to about 72.5/73mm. I've also played on a Gilbert 1 on the other oboe, but haven't done much with it on this one yet. I haven't had a need for it yet, as I usually use it to play 2nd oboe.
I hope this helps!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: rgombine
Date: 2012-02-11 06:24
Marc
I too came from a Loree to a Yamaha. Frankly a lot of similarities to your story:
Graduated college late 1980's, thought my GT series Loree was a little blown out and so switched to Yamaha around 2006. I struggled mightily w that middle of staff a which I also found flat. I actually turned to David Weber for help and ended up being fairly happy with using his staples and his 1C shape. For me part of the key was to make sure I tied as long as possible (helps keep opening smaller and the reed truer to the demensions of the shaper). I was also careful not to get too aggressive with taking out too much in the "window" area behind the heart -- I took to doing that part last and sparingly, just enough to round out the sound.
As an epilogue, I sold my Yamaha and started playing a Howarth XL last year and I absolutely could not be happier with that decision... The $4000 price differential aside.
So while I think you can find a setup that works, for a certain kind of player with a certain kind of reed, that A is gonna be funky! I think there are solutions but I also think it is an intrinsic characteristic of the instrument.
Hope that helps!
Ross
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Author: MarcAZ67
Date: 2012-02-11 21:01
Ross,
This is extremely helpful - I will look into your suggestions. I had an HY Loree way back then. I would say I'm "aggressive" with windows, so I'm off to try what you said. I have read good things about the XL and am curious about it and Marigaux 901
Thanks to all! Marc
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Author: oboemoboe
Date: 2012-02-13 09:52
Hi,
One of my high school students plays on a Yamaha 841. Pisoni staples (brass, 47mm) and a Gilbert -1 shape tied at 72mm seem to works fine for her.
I hope this could help,
Cheers!
O.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2012-02-19 13:47
What kind of Yamaha is it was it and do you know when it was manufactured?
One of my students purchased a 841 recently. It is one of the best pitch/intonation oboes I have seen. I use variety of scrape style reeds from short scrape French sounding one to short scrape German sounding one to variety of long scrape reeds. Its pitch/intonation quality is the same for all different style reeds but it appears to resonate best with American style long scrape reeds in terms of "dark" tone quality of the sound it produces. I was told that the bore and tone holes of this 841 were modeled after one researched and suggested by John Ferrillo and John Symer. In my opinion, this one fares pretty well with top models from Howarth for advanced players, but considerably lower price tag. Once one become a professional oboe player, especially in America, perhaps one should go with the flow on the name brand Americans prefer.
Hope this helps.
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Author: MarcAZ67
Date: 2012-02-20 06:01
thanks to all on your thoughts. I have had some small succeses experimenting with less out of the windows and with a Robinson shape. i still am probably confusing myself with too many variables ( different staples, shapes). And now it seems my old knife just wont hold an edge.....time to get a sharper knife and keep plugging away
maybe I just am out of shape and need practice...I just dont remember it being quite like this, but then again, I do believe the Yamaha is voiced lower (more in tune?) than my old standard bore loree that I had to blow so hard into
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