 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-07-19 07:42
Hello all, i am currently playing a Bulgheroni "opera" automatic system oboe (without choice really, Buffet is still away for at least another few weeks from what i can anticipate). I worked a little on the adjustment following the "oboe doctor" book of Marc Schaeferdiek. Everything is almost perfect now but some things are not so clear on the book. When i play (1st) octave E to G#, there are some directions on the book that allows me to determine whether the adjustments for the octave keys are correct, but unfortunately i am not able to understand them thoroughly.
When i play these notes, i have to make sure, perhaps too meticulously when compared to playing a semi automatic, that i don't relax even a bit on the G key (LH ring finger). The low notes are fantastic, so it must be the octave system that is not in the right shape, any advise on how to go about finding the culprit? When recently trying a few new automatic Fossatis, no such problem existed so i suppose it is not a "norm" of the automatic system, or is it?
Regards,
Howard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-19 10:51
On fully automatic oboes there's very little to no margin of error in the usual design of the 8ve mechanism and LH3, so you will have to make sure LH finger 3 is lifted clean off the fingerplate to avoid accidentally switching the 8ve vents.
They're not the easiest things to adjust or keep in adjustment, so ones with problems will have to be dealt with meticulously so they work properly. There's usually between four and seven adjustments in auto 8ves and each adjustment is critical. You'll be going round in circles checking and adjusting as you go with these things.
That's why the auto 8ve mechanism I designed has just the one adjustment to make things easy for anyone (the XL has an extra one to finely adjust the amount of double action between the 8ve key and the main part of the mechanism):
http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthS40Auto.jpg&pid=35123
http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowXLAutoOboeBW.jpg&pid=35119
Compared to the usual auto 8ve mechanism most makes have:
http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthXLAutoCocoGold.jpg&pid=566745
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-07-19 11:23)
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-07-19 13:14
Thank you Chris. How do you reckon i start? Should i do first the screws on top of the instrument or the ones on the bottom?
Regards,
Howard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-19 15:25
Adjust the ones nearest LH3 first to be sure LH3 closes the Bb pad along with it - you're best doing this while keeping the con bar wedged up from the lower end to free the Bb and C pads so you can check the adjustments on the main action easier.
While keeping the 8ve key held down, adjust the closure of LH3 along with the closure of the upper 8ve pad which is the adjusting screw at the top left as you're looking at it. Then check and adjust the closure of the lower 8ve pad when LH3 is raised with the adjusting screw on the lower 8ve key (in the middle of the instrument on the end of the rocker).
Finally check the closure of both 8ve pads when the 8ve key is released while raising and lowering LH3. There are two adjusting screws for this - the one by the lower 8ve pad adjusts the amount of double action between the 8ve key linkage and the 8ve mechanism, so leave a small amount of play in there to be sure the 8ve pads close when the 8ve key is released. The adjusting screw over on the right side regulates the closure of the upper 8ve pad along with the lower one when the 8ve key is released.
The pressure on the 8ve pads will vary slightly with the opening and closing LH3. The upper 8ve pad will have slightly more pressure than the lower one when LH3 is closed and the lower 8ve pad will have slightly more pressure than the upper one when LH3 is released.
There's very little margin for error in this type of 8ve mechanism and it also depends on the venting of LH3. So setting it up to work properly can be like chasing your own tail.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-07-20 08:03
Thank you Chris!
This proves to be a real struggle. Just a slight relaxation on LH 3 when the octave key is pressed proves disastrous. Simply, i don't think i have the experience to tell whether the mechanism is in the right shape. Hopefully i don't have to play on this soon enough!
Regards,
Howard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-20 09:58
The biggest problem I had playing automatics is the lack of the 2nd 8ve touchpiece which made things like octave leaps from low register A to upper A a pain as I'd instinctively go to use my index finger for it, but hit the trill key linkages instead.
I had a 2nd 8ve touch fitted in the usual place to my d'amore to make things easier. It duplicates the action of the thumb touch (by releasing both 8ve pads so they can be switched over by LH3), but is really there as a safety net.
Automatic thumbplate systems have both 8ve touches fitted to free up the left thumb for upper Bb and C. Some older fully automatic conservatoire instruments have both 8ve key touches fitted, but it's usually only the thumb key touch that's fitted to full autos.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-07-20 11:08
Looking at your posts and thinking about my current situation, i really feel sorry for people who are going into the oboe and have no idea what they are getting themselves into!
Howard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-20 11:12
... And then they've got the ****ing reeds to contend with!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gerry L
Date: 2011-08-04 07:51
Chris,
Congratulations on the mechanism design -- ingenious!
The vertical bar just right of center -- is that in fact a rocker arm that pivots on a lifter that is raised when the octave key is pressed?
If so I think I understand that when LH3 is down, then the upper end of the bar is held down, and the 1st octave key must open. But when LH3 is up, what forces the 2nd octave key to open? Is it relative spring strength between the two octave keys? Or am I way off track?!
Cheers,
Gerry
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-04 09:20
Hi Gerry, it works like a sax 8ve mechanism and there are only two springs (both on the right side of the photo where the 2nd 8ve key would normally be) - the stronger master spring which keeps the rocker held down (and both pads closed) and a weaker spring keeping the lower 8ve pad closed.
As soon as the 8ve key is pressed (and no other fingers are down), the upper 8ve vent pad will open and as soon as any pressure is applied to the upper 8ve vent pad (via the linkage arm from LH3), the lower 8ve vent pad opens. The venting of the 8ve vent pads is controlled by the amount of movement in the 8ve key (the thumb touch) and that also allows to put some safety double action in there as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gerry L
Date: 2011-08-04 19:04
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the explanation. I'm not familiar with the sax mechanism so I was just working from the photos. (BTW, of all the manufacturers Howarth does have by far the best pictures.)
From what you are saying, the ends of the rocker arm must actually insert into the pad arms, giving the rocker has the ability to hold the pad down as well as raise it. Is that the bit I missed?
Regards,
Gerry
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-04 20:19
That's right - I designed it so it uses Buffet nylon pins (the ones they use on the LH levers on clarinets) on the ends of the rocker and they fit into 2.4mm holes drilled through the cup arms so the rocker is fully engaged.
The rocker and the rocker carriage were originally adapted from existing key pieces from the S5/XL cor anglais F vent mechanism, but specially made pieces have since been designed for use in this 8ve mechanism instead of altering existing pieces.
It was after seeing a photo of a piccolo heckelphone that had a very simple looking auto 8ve mechanism that made me try something similar out to see if it worked on oboes - apparently it works too easily as was commented by someone at Frankfurt!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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