 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: myoboe
Date: 2010-10-10 08:22
Has anybody used the Reed Winder from Weber ? Is it easy to use ?
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Author: Ehafb
Date: 2010-10-10 11:55
no but came accross this
http://www.andrewstowell.com/page20.htm
Bryan
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-10-11 06:52
I think you mean this?
http://www.reedmaker.com/wrappingmachine/wrappingmachine.html
There are two things in this video I have adopted; the measuring rule with the stop at the end, and the slotted screw - except that I just continue winding by hand and tie off normally. The slotted screw is superb - so much better than that colourful tangle I used to have.
Note that Kerry wraps up to the top without using a mandrel! I can't do that without my staple collapsing. He must use very strong staples for this to work. It seems he wraps with far less winding tension than I do.
J.
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Author: myoboe
Date: 2010-10-11 15:13
Mmmmm looks the same as that from Weber Reeds
http://webreeds.com/wrstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=84_90&products_id=327
Thanks for the link and I like the video, difficult to picture it from reading just the text.
How do you make the slotted screw ?
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-10-12 02:56
I kinda like sitting on the floor with my thread tied to the leg of a solid piece of furniture... something very 'cottage' and earthy about it...
My teacher once told me a story about having to wrap a reed (in an emergency, while he was touring) with dental floss, said it worked pretty good.
Back to you technology gurus!!
GoodWinds
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-10-12 04:28
I still have a reed I tied with dental floss years ago.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-10-12 10:25
You don't make a slotted screw - you buy it at your local hardware store. Good luck buying just one  You use a regular flat-bladed screw-driver to screw it into the side of your workbench. It should have a smooth shank under the slotted head, something like this:
http://www.boltdepot.com/dimension.aspx?cc=3&cs=44&cm=6
J.
Post Edited (2010-10-12 10:26)
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Author: johnt
Date: 2010-10-12 12:56
I have a slotted machine screw screwed into the top of a narrow board which is C-clamped to my reed table; threads of the screw extend all the way up to the underside of the slotted head. The threads of the screw anchor the thread/string better than the partially smooth shank, IMHO. Far more secure than the knot on the shoe, doorknob, cup hook or chair back: as no slippage, or worse, the knot coming completely undone while tying.
I wonder about the tightness of the wrap using the reed winder. Potential for leaks? Painting with the acrylic glop (Kerry W's video?) Beeswax seems more user friendly to me. A lot to pay also (one could buy a shaper tip or a passel of tube cane for the same price…$185 plus s/h)
My 2¢ FWIW
Best,
john
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-10-13 02:37
the nice thing about middle-aged amateurs is that we're not afraid to be dorky or odd, just get the job done and make a great-sounding reed.
(You've posted some engineering-sounding stuff, Mike; do you take micrometer readings of your finished reeds or gouges? I'm just curious...)
GoodWinds
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-10-13 06:54
I carry a toolkit in my case, and one of the items is a piece of dowel with a long length of reedmaking thread wrapped around it. Floss would be too thin and would likely cut into the cane at the edges, though it is certainly strong enough.
I always have many reeds and a couple of blanks. Cheap clear nail-varnish can be a lifesaver for a reed that begins unraveling, and it hardens faster than the gook Kerry Willingham uses in his video.
At a pinch, I think I could transfer good blades to a new staple with my equipment (necessary if the cork comes free of the tube, which has happened to me with synthetic corks). Note that this is the default modus operandi for Bassoon reeds.
In my amateur circles, my toolkit has saved the day on many, many occasions - though mostly for other people's instruments and reeds.
J.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-10-13 14:09
No micrometer readings yet, though I've thought about it...
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: myoboe
Date: 2010-10-13 15:33
Thanks guys, all your sharings are very interesting but I am not as adept as you guys so won't even dream of doing anything out of the ordinary.
Does anyone know if the commercially available reeds are made using a reed winder ? They always look so neat and tidy. I can't imagine a manual labour producing commercial quantities of reeds, those people would have very sore hands !
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-10-13 15:48
You can purchase machine-made reeds and the results are, well, consistent but generally poor. These tend to be machine wrapped, probably in the manner shown in the video.
Pro reeds, from professional reedmakers, are usually hand wrapped as far as I can tell. I assume that Kerry Willingham's reeds are now machine wrapped, but they never used to be. See his online reedmaking videos on his website.
J.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-10-13 19:28
I bet more reeds are machine-wrapped than you might suppose. My first oboe teacher showed me his pencil-sharpener based reed winder back in 1975, which he developed years earlier when he was making reeds to sell. It was hand-cranked, but it fits the technical definition of a machine (as opposed to a tool) because it held the work.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2010-10-14 11:53
Personaly the number of hand tied reeds a year is about 750.
Greetings Mark
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-10-14 23:37
At times, I make micrometer measurements to insure the proper proportions and balance of the tip.
Visual examination can be misleading.
Mark
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Author: The Reedmaker
Date: 2010-10-25 23:26
HELLO! Concerning the Reed Winder.. I never had any problems with staples.. Do remember that you only "CLOSE" the reed .. THEN you put it on the Mandrel... so you are not wrapping for long without one.. and then placing on the Mandrel ( a Rigotti ) gives the support it needs... One does not want to overly exert pressure on wrapping... it will NOT help it close! Make sure your Shape is appropriate for the staples you use! If anyone has questions, please let me know. Also, I make about 300/ per month... as you can see, that is a LOT of reed wrapping... the Normal oboe player ( if there IS one ) does not really need a machine.. and a student should NEVER have one!!!
Thanks!
Kerry
Reedmaker Reed Shop
Kerry Willingham
kerry@reedmaker.com
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-10-26 08:31
Kerry, thanks for joining this discussion.
Quote:
I never had any problems with staples.. Do remember that you only "CLOSE" the reed .. THEN you put it on the Mandrel... so you are not wrapping for long without one.. and then placing on the Mandrel ( a Rigotti ) gives the support it needs... One does not want to overly exert pressure on wrapping... it will NOT help it close!
I was taught to exert as much tension as possible on the thread as I wrap, and have on occasion snapped the anchor thread while wrapping (until I learned to push away with the mandrel as I wrap). You seem to be saying something entirely different!
I also re-use my staples a great deal - you will always be wrapping perfect, new staples. I am wrapping staples that have been cycled many, many times. The slightest imperfection in the shape will collapse under the tension of the thread when wrapping without a mandrel. I know this from bitter experience, and have cast away more than one collapsed staple and piece of cracked cane.
The edges of the shaped cane meet at (or just before) the top of the staple. The extreme edges are actually twisted at 90 degrees to the "flat" of the reed, and this twist is what gives the reed the strength to stay open.
It also acts as a spring, pushing the edges of the shaped cane together, all the way up to the tip. This is why reed shapes that "flare" more tend to seal better, while reed shapes that have more parallel sides are harder to make seal.
This seems to indicate that quite a lot of tension is needed in the thread, no? Please comment!
J.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-10-26 14:27
I've never, ever had a staple collapse, back when I didn't have a mandrel (which was for many, many years). I've never used the "thin-wall" staples that now seem in vogue, just the old standard brass.
You can get a fair amount of tension even without a mandrel--the tension is all between the hand holding the thread and the anchor point. The other hand only has to oppose the slight torque caused by the thread entering and leaving the staple-reed combo at slightly different lateral positions.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: myoboe
Date: 2010-10-26 15:36
Can you please kindly explain what you mean by "Shape is appropriate for the staples you use" ? There are so many shapes and so many brands of staples out there, how can I possibly try all different combinations ? Please excuse my question, I am only a beginner.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-10-26 16:54
That is a very good question! I have been playing since 1974 and I still don't know the answer. Generally we mess around until we find something that works. We may compromise on the staple or the shape in order to get there, but once we're there, we're loath to jump into the experimentation stage all over again. If somebody could really work out which combinations work and which don't, that would be a great help. But I suspect you'd find that there isn't any consensus on that, either, as other variables besides shape and staple might affect the rate of success. For one thing, shapes that are called the same thing are not always the same thing in practice, as a worn shaper tip or different technique might give different results.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: The Reedmaker
Date: 2010-10-26 17:22
Hi myoboe,
sure.. no problem.. The dimensions of the INTERIOR of the staple is fairly constant, because we purchase staples to fit on a Loree or a Rigotti mandrel... and so forth.. but the OUTSIDE is the difference. There is no standard, but we can purchase "THIN WALL" or THICK WALL staples. The thin wall staples have less exterior circumference.... so obviously, they will tie on easier. If you select a wider shape, you will have fewer problems with "fatter" staples. Some of my customers want a -1N shape... very narrow.. and very difficult to tie without leaking, so one must be careful as to the thickness of the staple.
There is no list that I am aware of that matches staples to shapes, and I do not have time to do anything like that... just experiment a bit! Do not be afraid to change things, or try new things. Some might work, others might not, but you will be better informed for the trying!
Good luck!
Kerry Willingham
www.reedmaker.com
Reedmaker Reed Shop
Kerry Willingham
kerry@reedmaker.com
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