 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: DavidK
Date: 2010-08-10 08:19
I love the oboe, and I love Brahms' music. However, I get the feeling that the oboe was Brahms' least favourite wind instrument. Does anyone know? Apparently, the oboe was originally omitted from Serenade No. 1 and the oboe parts in Serenade No. 2 pale in comparison to the flute and clarinet parts. Yes, I know there's the violin concerto solo and some nice lines in his symphonies, but is there any record of Brahms saying/writing anything good or bad about the oboe?
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-08-10 16:13
What about the "Variations on the St. Anthony Chorale"? The theme is stated on the oboes, and then the oboe stars in many of the subsequent variations.
Also, don't be so dismissive about the Violin Concerto. Saraste famously refused to play the concerto, claiming that he would not stand with his Violin in hand, listening to the Oboe play the only decent tune in the whole work!
And the symphonies - wonderful, lyrical oboe parts, if a little difficult in places (1st. symphony, 2nd. movt. comes to mind ...). The Alegretto in the 2nd symphony, again with Oboe introducing the theme .. etc.
http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.1_(Brahms,_Johannes)
No, I think Brahms was an oboe fan.
J.
Post Edited (2010-08-10 16:26)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-10 19:51
I can only assume as the piano and violin were the forces to be reckoned with in the Romantic era as these were the 'showy' instruments, the oboe as a solo or chamber instrument fell by the wayside, whereas the clarinet has the range and tone that suited chamber music better and Brahms used this (even though the clarinet too was largely pushed aside by the popularity of the piano and violin).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-08-15 05:21
I found the solos in Symphony I plenty challenging, and beautiful.
GoodWinds
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-15 10:00
Just think how challenging the solo in the 2nd movement would be played on an oboe from Brahms' era! I find it a struggle on a modern instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2010-09-04 14:26
I don't think Brahms hated the oboe. There are many gorgeous parts in his orchestral music. The composer who I think really hated the oboe was Dvorak. Some of the 2nd oboe parts are vicious - very low and soft! I have often said that I think he was out to get someone!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-04 15:05
I don't think Dvorak hated the oboe either - yes he gave the 2nd oboists some very important and challenging parts to keep them on their toes, but I don't think this was out of spite.
In fact, he was generous and gave a lot of the 2nd wind players important parts so they were on equal footing with the 1st players, although the 2nds do often get the more challenging part than the 1sts in several instances so the 1sts could glance over and say to themselves 'rather you than me'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-09-04 16:12
Both Brahms and Dvorak gave the 2nd players a work out. Brahms Symphony 2, 2nd movement...Haydn Variations and Dvorak Symphony 7 and there's another I just can't think of that have great moments for 2nd oboe, and usually end up on 2nd oboe orchestra auditions. In New World, 2nd flute gets a lot of playing to do. I didn't realize until my college orchestra played it how many solos the 2nd flute actually had.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-09-05 04:23
I have a hard time with JS Bach because I don't think he thought very much about where one takes a breath...
You 'guys' have to remember that many a superb composer didn't actually play the oboe, so if they wrote challenging music for it, it's because they loved the sound and wanted it heard. It would take a very sensitive composer to get the player's opinion as to how hard it would be! (And then the music might have suffered some??)
GoodWinds
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-09-05 05:09
I learned to circular breathe because of Bach lol (and Strauss for that matter). I do think the music would suffer in Bach without the long, long, long phrases that never end. I think that's what is special about him. He's like a run-on sentence that makes sense lol.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-09-06 04:54
"... a run-on sentence that makes sense."
YES. I never got the hang of circular breathing, although I played with a doubler (he used fibercane reeds!) and could manage it.
Rhetorical question: Does ANY composer 'hate' the oboe? (Perhaps if they've only heard it played really badly, and hence avoided writing anything that stood out.)
I can't think of one instance in classical music where the composer took something out on the instrument itself -- not in the composition, anyway. I'm SURE there were personality clashes, in every era, though!
GoodWinds
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2010-09-07 15:04
The oboe(s) that Brahms and Dvorak wrote for were similar to today's Viennese oboe, and had a much easier, softer lower range. The passages they wrote for the 2nd oboe wouldn't have been unreasonable back in those days. Another example is the low Db in Moldau by Smetana.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-07 15:11
"Another example is the low Db in Moldau by Smetana" - some 2nd players will sometimes play it on cor (as an Ab) instead to be sure it speaks cleanly and is easier to control than a pp low C#/Db which isn't exactly the nicest of notes on most oboes.
Dvorak's Romanze in F minor has some choice writing to test the 2nd oboist: http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/b7/IMSLP49202-PMLP51921-Dvorak-Op011.Oboe.pdf - look at the very last note!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-09-07 15:16)
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Author: Surprenant
Date: 2014-11-16 10:43
According to Colin Lawson in Brahms Clarinet Quintet: [Brahms had] a fondness for the combination of clarinets and bassoons, with or without horns, representative of the 'warmer and round-toned blends' available by excluding the oboe sonority."
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2014-11-17 05:13
That's true, Surpranent, but excluding an edgy sonority to achieve a more mellow result is just another example of Brahms' incredible orchestration skills, not something he did all the time because he disliked oboe...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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