 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: skitrees
Date: 2006-07-23 06:37
If this topic has already been posted, please let me know - I did a couple searches, but never found what I was looking for.
I live in a medium sized town (about 20,000 or so, not counting the variable student population). We have the state's only four-year university located dead center in the town.
However, I have been trying to figure out how to get a group together to play trad music. The university won't support trad music, so it is VERY difficult to even find students who want to play. I approached the Dr. who leads the new Jazz Studies program, and I was informed in a very direct manner that the university would not allow it's students to pursue such studies, as the University was currently not staffed so as to provide support for this type of Jazz.
Without the university, the town is basically agricultural in nature, and while there is an abundance to fiddle, guitar, and various other bluegrass oriented players - it has been very difficult to find other musicians who share my love for Trad.
The next nearest town is 45 miles away, and I've been putting feelers out to see if anyone will be willing to start a group up there, but so far the results have been less than promising. The next towns around all are over 80 miles away, and I just can't do that kind of travelling with my normal job and everything (even weekends).
So - I am asking this experienced community for advice on what I might do to find other players who will play. I've struck out looking at the "residants", I've struck out with the university students, I've struck out with the university Dr. of Jazz Studies, and so far, I'm striking out in the only other city near enough to be viable.
I know. . .I know . . ."move" right?
Well, anything short of that - I'm all ears.
Thanks!!
-Skitrees
Make music, not ego ôô
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-07-23 07:21
skitrees wrote:
>and while there is an abundance to fiddle, guitar, and
> various other bluegrass oriented players - it has been very
> difficult to find other musicians who share my love for Trad.
Those are the guys to approach about playing trad. They already play related music, such as country rags. You will find that some are interested in western swing. Many such players yearn to learn to improvise, and improve their knowledge of chords.
You won't have a pure "trad" band; you will have a hybrid. You will need to learn to play some of their stuff, and make it swing, while blending with them. You will need to learn to play in their keys. Lots of transposing and/or a C-clarinet.
The jazz studies prof probably blew you off because: a: as a jazz studies prof he's interested in the cutting edge, like most profs in most fields, and b: his job is to train college students, not provide community education.
Steve Epstein
Post Edited (2006-07-23 07:23)
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Author: skitrees
Date: 2006-07-23 08:38
Steve,
Thanks for your quick response.
Please allow me to clarify just a few details before others reply:
1. I was a student at the time I approached the Dr. of Jazz Studies, so I really hadn't figured I would meet rejection from him - I hadn't even considered it, so it was sorta "crushing" as the words came out of his mouth. (It hadn't dawned on me that I was asking so much until that moment).
2. I have approached the bluegrass community and have thus far met rejection. They just don't think that clarinet will sound good with their instruments. I have tried to recommend several listening options so that they could hear that clarinet will actually fit in when played to fit in, but I haven't received any takers yet.
But perhaps this is still my most viable option and I should follow your advice and simply put more resolve/time/effort towards this solution! Thank You!!
I do very respecfully and sincerly disagree with one point you made though. . .
I do agree that the Dr. of Jazz Studies is probably only worried about "cutting edge" stuff, but most of us still had to learn classical clarinet prior to contemporary, right? Not really cutting edge stuff, but still very important in the history of music for the clarinet. I feel that jazz studies programs shouldn't really forget or neglect their history either. I do agree with (what I percieve to be) the implied intent of your remark though - that he is simply doing his duty by preparing the students for the marketplace they will encounter when they graduate.
However, I just feel that by in large trad jazz has been overlooked by many universities, and would be a viable program were it given a chance to reach the market place. Now. . .about the raise of tuition it would take to hire the staff for such a thing!!!  I know - it is just my dream, and reality probably isn't conducive to it.
Thanks again for the quick response and the different viewpoint! Until (if) I hear from others - I think I will follow your advice and make a new effort towards the bluegrass crowd!
--Skitrees
Make music, not ego ôô
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-07-23 09:32
Since when has 'official' support had any influence on what students do in their spare time?
When I was at Uni I was lucky enough to join a quartet with two music students and a chemist. We wrote our own arrangements and busked in the street for cash. Soon enough the music students entered us for their own performance credits and we played in front of their teachers. How did you approach these guys? Sounds like a strange attitude for a university. Perhaps the trad jazz scene is just very different in the US...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-07-23 10:29
I study jazz performance here in university. The department is actually called "multi subject" which originally was supposed to be kind of like classical, jazz and a lot of other stuff together. It is actually just a jazz perfromacne department (with classical music theory too). I prefer to play modern/free jazz and improvised music. Almost all the staff is very traditional and prefer students to play "mainstream" jazz (=bebop), but when I played a dixieland tune they also didn't like it and said it is not modern enough.... That's how it is here.
I also ask, like Bassie, why does the opinion of the jazz teacher matters at all, if this is something that is done outside the university?
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-07-23 14:43
Hello,
My favorite style of jazz would be what you are describing--trad, swing, with a little bebop influence for me. From personal experience, I can say (at least here in the Washington, D.C. area), I get way more work than my friends that insist on only playing the "cutting edge" jazz. Perhaps Cheyenne, Wyoming is different, but I would suggest that you find a venue to perform first. Perhaps a local coffee shop, or restaurant, or a church. If you can offer enough money, almost any musician will join you. I do agree that if you could enlist some of the bluegrass musicians, you would have a good foundation for a trad group. If you can hire these musicians to play your music, then, eventually, they might hire you to play their music. You might invent a new, "cutting edge" sound.
By the way, shame on the professor that does not encourage all performance! As Duke Ellington said, there are only two types of music: good and bad. As your professor should have said: go for it--make it happen--good luck!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2006-07-23 15:44
This brings back memories of my early days in college and high shool, when it seemed that jazz bands played nothing but Maynard Ferguson-style songs. Anything else written post-1960 was generally not considered to have much audience appeal.
Are you a member of any of your area's jazz societies, e.g., the Wyoming Blues and Jazz Society?
http://www.wyobluesandjazz.org/
Pleading your case at one of their meetings and advertising in their monthly publication will certainly help promote what you're trying to do.
Perhaps this is a bit of a long shot, but you may want to contact the Traditional Jazz Educator's Network:
http://www.prjc.org/tjen/resources.htm
they may be able to connect you with trad jazz in your geographic area, even if it's at the high-school level.
What about some of the military bases? Seems like every base I was ever stationed on had the "pros", and then there were the civilian and enlisted folks jazz club that did it in their spare time just for fun. You may want to see if Ft. Collins or the other bases have anything like that. There's also:
http://www.prijb.com/about.htm (Poudre River Irregulars Jazz Band from Ft. Collins).
I don't know how often you get into Laramie, WY, but there's a Bob Crosby music archive that was given to U of W by the Crosby family. Contacting somebody there and posting notices of your intent may generate some interest.
Good luck, and thanks for trying to keep trad jazz alive.
Post Edited (2006-07-23 16:28)
Post Edited (2006-07-23 21:16)
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-07-23 17:46
skitrees wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Thanks for your quick response.
>
> Please allow me to clarify just a few details before others
> reply:
>
> 1. I was a student at the time I approached the Dr. of Jazz
> Studies, so I really hadn't figured I would meet rejection from
> him - I hadn't even considered it, so it was sorta "crushing"
> as the words came out of his mouth. (It hadn't dawned on me
> that I was asking so much until that moment).
He's done with you; you're ancient history now. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
> 2. I have approached the bluegrass community and have thus far
> met rejection. They just don't think that clarinet will sound
> good with their instruments. I have tried to recommend several
> listening options so that they could hear that clarinet will
> actually fit in when played to fit in, but I haven't received
> any takers yet.
How did you approach them? Did you go to some of their jams, or open folk jams where anyone can play anything, and when it was your turn play some tune they might know that sounds good both on clarinet and fiddle, and in the key they usually play? They don't just need to hear clarinet; they need to hear YOU, and play along with you.
> But perhaps this is still my most viable option and I should
> follow your advice and simply put more resolve/time/effort
> towards this solution! Thank You!!
>
> I do very respecfully and sincerly disagree with one point you
> made though. . .
>
> I do agree that the Dr. of Jazz Studies is probably only
> worried about "cutting edge" stuff, but most of us still had to
> learn classical clarinet prior to contemporary, right? Not
> really cutting edge stuff, but still very important in the
> history of music for the clarinet. I feel that jazz studies
> programs shouldn't really forget or neglect their history
> either. I do agree with (what I percieve to be) the implied
> intent of your remark though - that he is simply doing his duty
> by preparing the students for the marketplace they will
> encounter when they graduate.
Actually, he isn't preparing them that well for the marketplace, as Ben Redwine implies in his post. He's using them to further his academic advancement.
> However, I just feel that by in large trad jazz has been
> overlooked by many universities, and would be a viable program
> were it given a chance to reach the market place. Now. .
> .about the raise of tuition it would take to hire the staff for
> such a thing!!! I know - it is just my dream, and reality
> probably isn't conducive to it.
>
> Thanks again for the quick response and the different
> viewpoint! Until (if) I hear from others - I think I will
> follow your advice and make a new effort towards the bluegrass
> crowd!
>
> --Skitrees
Check out your local folk and traditional music societies (that's traditional as in folk, not jazz). Go to their jams. You'll meet a lot of people who play autoharps as well as three chord guitar wonders who are aspiring singer-songwriters, but you'll also meet the guy who "knows all the chords" and that's where and with whom you start.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-07-23 18:31
May I ask a question?, being oldt I confuse easily, but here the meaning[s?] of Trad have escaped me. Growing up musically in the 30-40's, in the North, the styles of jazz were changing from those of the 20's to Swing [Goodman, Ellington, Shaw, Miller]. So I have regarded the early [NO, KC, Chi Dixieland etc as "traditional" rather than the 50's cool, combo jazz which, it seems to me, is suggested here. I have several books with Jazz in the titles, perhaps I should research them for enlightment. No matter what , I enjoy lurking here, TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2006-07-23 19:09
"Traditional jazz" encompasses NO jazz and its outgrowths, e.g., Dixieland, Chicago, San Francisco, among others.
Here's as good as any defintiion of what it is:
http://www.prjc.org/tjen/styleguide.htm
(I seem to recall hearing that Turk Murphy was the one who actually coined the phrase "trad jazz).
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2006-07-23 19:36
Hi:
First, good luck to you in finding the type of musicians you seek.
Try this site:
http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
There are many, many, musicians who play many different types of trad music. I bet if you ask on the list, you will receive some info. and perhaps even find people in your region who can help you.
Best of luck.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-07-24 00:48
Run an ad, sying that you are starting a "Trad" group. Mention that you already have a clarinetist --and list the other instruments you'd like to be part of the ensemble.
Bob Phillips
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Author: skitrees
Date: 2006-07-24 04:30
To everyone: WOW!!!
I am deeply touched by the outpouring of advice. You have all renewed my confidence and built up my steam so I am ready to go out there and push forward again!!
I apologize if I don't get to reply to every question or comment, but as a new member here at the forum, I would just really like to thank EVERYONE for her or his input and understanding of the situation.
You have each pointed out different techniques/angles that I could try, and shown me that I really haven't been as bold as I should be with the blue grass folks. I've spoken with them, but I've never just showed up for their monthly jam sessions with clarinet in hand before.
The Bob Crosby archive sounds great! I'll have to try that angle, I knew that the school had a bunch of the old Looney Tunes scores that weren't titled, the pages weren't numbered, and many were missing things - they've been trying to sort that out for a long time, but I had no idea on the Bob Crosby stuff being there too!! I went to school with the lady who is in charge of the archives there, so that is a great potential starting spot.
Also, I am embarassed to say that I hadn't even searched the web for wyoming jazz blues - so that site is a new one to me as well. I'm so excited now!!
And, Bob, the ad idea is great - I'm already running ads for my business, I could just sneak the Trad bit in at the end!!
Again, thanks to each and every one of you for taking the time to give me feedback and input - it means a lot to me. Sometimes a person just needs a different perspective and a retuning - you have all provided that for me.
Thank you!!
--Skitrees
Make music, not ego ôô
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-07-24 05:51
By the way, what is trad. music? If I saw an ad someone looking for players for a trad. music group, I would have no idea what music they mean, since there are so many different types of it. every culture has its own traditions and music.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-07-24 17:55
redwine -
"If you can offer enough money, almost any musician will join you." ?
If you can offer ANY money, almost any musician will join you... ;-D
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2006-07-25 17:25
How about searching for players on a networking site like Myspace? You can search by proximity to your zip code and email anyone whose profile looks promising. You can also search for people who signed up specifically to network for particular instruments. Or maybe run a search using some standard trad jazz artist names to see if some trad jazz fan in your area happens to play an instrument.
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