 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark Baverstam
Date: 2003-01-04 19:51
is it just me or has Mark C. been kind mean lately...you know, with the banning people for no reason, etc. like the thing about that rude e-mail...and what else?
has he been in a bad mood or something?
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Author: Corey
Date: 2003-01-04 20:00
It's just you, it's in the rules on this board that you cant post anything of that sort without permission from the sender.
Corey
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Author: RonD
Date: 2003-01-04 20:04
It's his board and he sets the rules. If you don't agree feel free to start your own board.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2003-01-04 20:15
If you have a problem with him, it seems a personal e-mail would be better than posting something here.
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Author: Rob
Date: 2003-01-04 20:57
I have not noticed that Mr. Charette has acted in a malicious manner. The bottom line is that he can make the rules whatever he likes them to be. As far as I have seen his treatment has been fair and well-balanced. Calling someone "mean" is very regionally subjective. Living in the American Midwest but being originally from NYC, I have been accused often of being mean. It took me years of heightened self-awareness to understand just what aspects of my character the locals found objectionable. Just to give you an example, I was taught that lying to people for any reason was not a nice thing to do, that it was, in fact, a pretty mean thing to do. Here in the American Midwest, I have found that many people find it perfectly acceptable to lie to others, explaining that they are doing it to spare the other person's feelings. I still think it's pretty awful, but people here think they're being nice when they lie to you. I think Mr. Charette is providing an incredible service to everyone here. If he feels the need to be plain-spoken and direct (qualitis I appreciate very much)the only effect I see is more efficient delivery of the services he provides. What could be mean about that? I consider it a demonstration of respect.
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Author: eBay Junky
Date: 2003-01-04 21:05
If you have a useful suggestion for improving the BB take it up with Mark personally via eMail. Attacking someone publically this way serves no useful purpose and shows a lack of class.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-01-04 21:14
There is no question about it. This BB is Mark Charette's "home" and his word is law, just like your's (or your wive's) is at your home.
Everyone knows me as being forward, argumentative and opinionated and I enjoy creating and/or getting into lively arguments with 100 other people on the right threads, but agree that politics and religion should definitely be out of bounds subjects, as they can create long lasting, deeply ill feelings and other reasons, as well.
While I'm the first to tell Mark C. when I think he is wrong, I condone someone being personally offensive, especially to Mark C., as much as I condone anyone being offensive to me in my own home, and, unfortunately, Mike was very, very personally offensive to Mark.
However, there is a marked (no pun intended) difference between the way that MC used to deal with transgressors some time ago and the way he does now. He was always firm, but polite, where now he is harsh and rude (no offense meant, Mark.)
There might have even been a time or two when he admonished someone who replied jokingly to the admonishment and Mark would answer in kind. There might have been a time or two when the admonished party would reply argumentatively and Mark would reply even more firmly, but not necessarily in a rude or otherwise harsh way.
I've been away from the BB for about a year, so perhaps the difference is more visible to me for that reason. Many of us knew Mark C. when he had a better sense of humor and of human nature (no offense meant, Mark) but coming back in after being away and running head on into the difference between then and now has been an experience and e-mail is buzzing concerning Mark's attitude as of late.
But do understand that people go through phases, challenges and events in life that cause either temporary or permanent changes in attitude and demeanor (have you been around someone quitting smoking?) and this happens to the best and the worst of us alike.
This is still the liveliest, most informative BB of this type on the web, with the largest continuing participation of the most knowledgeable and best informed people available at any given time.
I know many of us have noticed, but in case some haven't, there are some really top of the heap, professional players who ocassionally post here, because, although they don't actively participate regularly, they read it often enough to know what's on it and are not above putting in their two cents worth when something interests them.
BBs like this are few and far between, let's hope that never-ending bad moods don't continue to increasingly curtail lively and varied discussion with opposing viewpoints and eventually turn it into a dull and restrictive forum that people drop out of more than into.
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Author: James
Date: 2003-01-04 21:29
What is the role of webmaster exactly. Is he hired or volunteered to do the work on this site, or did he start this all on his own? Just curious.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-04 21:54
James wrote:
>
> What is the role of webmaster exactly. Is he hired or
> volunteered to do the work on this site, or did he start this
> all on his own? Just curious.
I do it all myself.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-04 22:00
Mark Baverstam wrote:
>
> is it just me or has Mark C. been kind mean lately...you
> know, with the banning people for no reason, etc.
Perhaps you didn't read the thread; I said enough - twice. The reason for banning someone is flagrant disregard for what I ask. It's not done lightly, but, as it is, there are only 3 people in all the years I've been running this who have been banned, all for exactly the same reason.
Peter likes to be an armchair psychologist and is pretty far off-base when he thinks he's delving into my personality - it's pretty rude and offensive to me - but right now I'm letting it slide.
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Author: John
Date: 2003-01-04 22:05
All,
Perception sometimes can be everything. I have been reading this board or about nine months and am astonished with the wealth of experence, knowledge, humor, and diversity that it has contained. Mark has done a great service to us all in maintaining this forum for all of us to learn and be entertained.
However, this is his board. Since he maintains it, he and only he makes the rules. I am sure, that to Mark, it is a bore when the few rules that he has made are repeatedly broken.
We should all have a little more patience.
John
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-01-04 22:07
James,
Mark C. started the Sneezy Clarinet BB a long time ago. He owns the server and does everything necessary that has to do with the running of it. A 24/7/365 (366 on leap year) job.
He's made it what it is. Literally, it's his property, lock, stock and barrel!
Imagine if you were tied to something like this, all the time, without any real respit, day in and day out, for years past and, hopefully, years to come!
And short of some member and/or advertiser support, he is also responsible for footing all the bills incurred. Try that one on for size!
That is why it behooves us to do business with the supporting advertisers and, very important, when you do, ensure they know that you are contacting them because of woodwinds.org, so they always know it's a good investment.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-01-04 22:20
I hadn't read Mark's last post when I wrote my last one, but I can't neglect to say that he is correct. Mark has put up with a lot of stuff from me (and others,) and I know this is true.
If you go back to some of the more controversial threads, you'll also see that the posters here have put up with a lot of stuff from each other, as well. This is one of the great differences between this BB and most others.
When most of us here squabble, especially the old timers on the board, we do so as if we were sibblings and forget about it shortly after.
So, as Mark and others have put up with so much from me (and others,) each one of us would be remiss to the spirit of this BB if we did not reciprocate in kind.
And that's the last I have to say on the subject. (Thank God for small favors!)
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2003-01-05 00:22
I've been watching tis BB for a while and I disagree with the statement that Mark has turned into Darth Charette. He sets firm rules and expects everyone to abide by them. Kind of like a strict parent.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2003-01-05 02:30
Mark B.:
When I first joined this board a year or two ago, Mark C. took a little getting used to at first. Rest assured that once you <i>do</i> get used to him, he makes more sense than anyone else here.
Kenabbot:
I like your strict parent analogy. But there are two types of strict parents: the ones who are abusive, and the ones who are just firm. Mark is definitely in the firm category.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-05 03:15
David Pegel wrote:
> Mark is definitely in the firm category.
And oftentimes curt. But that has to do more with the volume of email and such that I deal with on a daily basis than anything else. Those that know me personally know that I'm a talkative fellow!
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-01-05 10:36
Mark C -
I suspect it might save you some trouble in the long run if you were to provide a prominent link to a "sneezy-etiquette" page. (if there is one, it isn't prominent enough!) You could use this page to set out the rules of the board and also to explain <i>why</i> these rules are necessary. For example, it is clear that a lot of forum participants don't understand why you need to edit postings that are defamatory or contravene copyright.
When you move to the new software, perhaps you could make all participants view this page and press an "I agree" button as a condition of getting a screen name.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2003-01-05 18:31
I have noticed more banishing and thread death lately. However, I cannot tell if the cause is an extra amount of stupidity about in the posts (Christmas break and there's more time to be stupid) or our webmaster being stricter than usual. I've noticed spats of this before. (Ducks and exits the room.)
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-01-05 22:49
David, a succinct if not standard suggestion for a "butt-covering" disclaimer page. I'm sure Mark's way ahead of the game and already considered that option but decided against it to better promote a more cordial, inviting posting atmosphere ... hopefully, not having to draw a line in the sand.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-01-06 01:06
Funny, most repair technicians that I know exhibit the same behavior with clarinet players returning for 'a little adjustment'.
The late, great Everett Matson warned me - 'Clarinet players will make you crazy...'
Combine easy access to the internet, schools out, and the persistent unwillingess of Newbies to perform rudimentary searches -
it's a marvel that the 'One Man Band' remains so civil.
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Author: ed
Date: 2003-01-06 01:07
I personally think that Mark does a great job. I am always very pleased with the wonderful service this site is to clarinetists. I have had no complaints with the way things are handled here.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2003-01-06 14:33
I don't think Mark has been mean - just firm and direct.
Once Woodwind.org has established itself as a 501(C)(3) not-for-profit corporation with a governing board of directors, it will be up to that board to write its by-laws, as well as rules and policies pertaining to its website. The webmaster will then have to abide byand enforce those rules, and hopefully they'll be carefully and clearly written. This will eliminate the apparent sense of arbitrariness that some posters seem to perceive.
PS - I must admit that I was a bit chagrined to see that my simple posting of Bill Clinton's wisdom about music education led to the impeachment of a BB poster. It was fun to observe, though. You could see it coming about three postings ahead of the fact.
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2003-01-06 15:03
larryb wrote:
>
> I don't think Mark has been mean - just firm and direct.
>
> Once Woodwind.org has established itself as a 501(C)(3)
> not-for-profit corporation with a governing board of directors,
> it will be up to that board to write its by-laws, as well as
> rules and policies pertaining to its website. The webmaster
> will then have to abide byand enforce those rules, and
> hopefully they'll be carefully and clearly written. This will
> eliminate the apparent sense of arbitrariness that some posters
> seem to perceive.
Woodwind.Org is being incorporated, but not as a 501(c)(3) as per advice of legal and financial counsel.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2003-01-06 15:09
but there will still be a board, by-laws, policies, etc. No?
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2003-01-06 15:43
larryb wrote:
>
> but there will still be a board, by-laws, policies, etc.
> No?
Yes, but not specifically to deal with this BBoard, other than some of the legal formalities I have to abide by.
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