 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Benni
Date: 2002-12-31 00:50
Just as there are "cat people" and "dog people" or "PC people" and "Mac people" there definately exists a group I will refer to as the "Buffet people." They will only buy Buffets. They will only play Buffets. Anything else offends their taste. They seem to especially hate Selmers, and avoid saying the word "Selmer" whenever possible. They just laugh at Leblancs.
So, my question is, why so particular? There are good and bad Buffets out there like any other brand (and, dare I say, there are probably not any more "magical" Buffets than any other company produces) . . . I've played on different clarinets of different brands that I've liked and disliked, but just because I finally picked a certain one doesn't mean that every other brand is bad!
I'd play a Buffet if I found one I really liked. I'd also play on a Leblanc or a Conn or whatever if I found it suited my needs. I just happen to have found a Selmer I really like, so that's what I play, but I don't mind trying out other clarinets and admitting they're quite nice. That's just part of the fun of playing an instrument!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-12-31 01:10
Teacher recommendation and order. And what everybody else plays in ensemble. Mandated instrument brand, if you will.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-12-31 01:40
I play whatever's available and sounds okay. Last month it was a Prueffer Oehler system, last night a Bundy bass. As long as it's fun and fits the ocassion I'm happy - and pretty easy to please. I like dogs and cats too 
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Author: traysee
Date: 2002-12-31 02:15
I can't speak for anyone else, but I bought my Buffet because that was the best instrument that I tried. It came down to a R13 and and Opus-I played a part of Mozart on both of the instruments in front on some professors of mine and they both said they thought the Buffet had a better sound. (I was hoping they liked the Opus better)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-31 04:30
Being a part of the Buffer Mafia, I must say that I play on Buffet because that's what my teacher told Daddy to buy me a few years ago... And since then, every other instrument I play, just doesn't feel 'right', on my fingers or in the sound. If Buffet didn't exist, I'd probably play Selmer Signatures. Oh no! I said the S word!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-12-31 05:09
As a card carrying member of the Buffet Mafia, and owner of 11 R-13's (and still looking for #12), I feel there is no other instrument which is as ideal for varied musical settings.
Sure, Buffet clarinets have their individual tuning quirks, and some critics even have gone as far as proclaiming the R-13 as being a "dated" design, but for reliability, flexibility, and overall coloration, the R-13 feels "just right".
We all know that 90% of one's sound comes from internal conceptualization, and "you" will (eventually) sound like "you" on any brand of clarinet, but for the remaining 10% of the equation, the R-13 permits the expressiveness which I desire...GBK
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Author: James
Date: 2002-12-31 07:22
I really have to go with morrigan. Buffet for me is just my idea of what a clarinet should feel like. Just like for me, a long faced closed mouthpiece feels like a mouthpiece. Just taste. I don't think it's a cult. There's a reason why buffet is the most popular clarinet.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-31 07:40
You're gonna regret saying that James. because jsut like there's a Buffet Mafia, there's also a Selmer, LeBlanc, and Yamaha one.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-12-31 11:43
It would be interesting to see the results of a selection if all the identifying marks were covered.
I have had young people try out a handful of clarinets at my home, select a Yamaha only to change their opinion when the tape came off.
I have had one (and only one) player immediately seize on the hidden R13, and this after a 25 year hiatus from playing.
(It was an older instrument, from the same vintage as his first.)
They're wonderful instruments, but most of my favorite players blow something else.... and claim the instrument makes little difference.
Marketing and conservative forces among the teaching circles have driven this as the pre-eminent choice for more than twenty years -
the preconception that it is better than any other helps, too.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-12-31 13:35
My criteria for instrument selection is even tone quality, intonation, and flexibility. My main clarinet for years was a 1968 R-13. It was relegated to second by a very nice Selmer Balanced Tone. The BT was not suited for ensemble use, therefore I now have as my number 1 a LeBlanc Ambiance. (A very nice and under rated instrument.) My "A" clarinet is a Yamaha SE. My back up instrument is whatever I have lying about that I feel like playing. I still have a Selmer CT that plays very nicely along with the BT.
The Buffet is a very good product. There are many excellent clarinets from which to chose. I've noticed that no one has posted about the Eatons, Rossi's, Patricolla's, etc. It really doesn't bother me what someone else plays, so long as they play it well.
jbutler
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-12-31 14:02
I am always amazed at the number of posts where students have been told which clarinet they MUST play by their instructor. I remember in college in the late 1970's my teacher was hooked on Selmers. I played a Selmer that the college owned and hated it. I haven't liked Selmer since. That instructor is now a Buffet person.
Clarinet popularity is an odd thing. Look at the ads in the clarinet magazine and see who is hawking instruments. I see Howard Klug is doing an ad for Rossi. And Leblanc has some heavy hitters:
Eddie Daniels, Larry Combs, Pete Fountain...
I see Buffet features members of several top notch orchestras.
I have an old Conn ad with Artie Shaw's picture on the ad. Shaw did work for the Conn folks back in the 1950's. He played Selmers and Buffets.
I forgot what the point of this was. I guess a good horn is a good horn. If you like it play it. If you don't find something else. I myself have little brand loyalty....I have 2 Buffets (a bass and an Eb), 2 Rossis, a Leblanc A, and an SML that I play. Each serves a specific purpose. Each has its own quirks and terrific qualities.
My Grandfather was in the car business many years ago and only drove a Buick. Consequently I only think of a Buick as something old people drive.
Brand loyalty is an interesting "animal".
I also like cats and dogs. Oh and black jelly beans, you either like those or you don't.
Happy New Year.
Jean
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Author: William
Date: 2002-12-31 15:10
Dog person (Chocolate Lab named Bailey)
Buffet Mafia. First recruited in college (from the Selmer family) because the R13 was "the clarinet to buy." And I got lucky (with the help of someone in MYC who selected my instruments at Carl Fischer) and have an excellant set--Bb and A.
I've played other clarinets--and own a supurb set of Leblanc Concertos--but still have not found another clarinet that is a musicallay expressive and has "the sound" that my Buffets have.
Bottom Line: If I ever find a clarinet that playes better than my R13, I will switch (even if I can't finacially afford to do so)
Happy New Year to clarinetist's of all allegencies. May 2003 let us all find that perfect reed, but more importantly, let us all be perfectly "in tune". Peace!!!!!!!!
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-12-31 15:20
Hi,
There is a parallel here with the automobile industry and the definition of what's THE luxury car (read best clarinet as well). Is it a Benz, BMW, Lincoln, Cadillac, Audi, Lexus, Jaguar, Infiniti, etc?
All do an excellent job of getting one from place to place very smoothly with relative peace and precision. Isn't that what the other brands of fine clarinets do as well? Each of us should base our preference on personal likes and dislikes and not all blindly "drive a 7 series BMW."
Hank
PS I drive a Toyota LS400 and play either a Selmer Series 9 or 9* with an occasional foray with the LeBlanc Dynamic 2.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2002-12-31 15:52
Hank,
I play a Series 9, too. :-) Of course, I also like the Leblanc Concerto very much, and the (repadded) Vito is a fine student model, plus the bore is pretty much the same as my Selmer. I also played on a Selmer Signet recently, and liked that a lot, too. The only Yamaha I've ever played on was a student model, and I didn't like it very much - I found the breaks and nodes (such as G5) to be very pronounced.
Jean,
I'm pretty sure Shaw actually did play a Conn for a short time, and I know that Woody Herman played one for a while. I believe it was the Conn 444, but I'm not quite sure about that. I like black jellybeans, too. :-)
Being the one who started this thread, I must say that it's interesting to see everyone's opinions on brand loyalty (or lack thereof! ;-)), and to see the reason they started playing what they're playing now. Please continue!
P.S. If there is anyone out there who *really* doesn't like Selmers, could you please elaborate? Is it simply because the older ones are usually associated with jazz or what? I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a Selmer person, but I do like my Selmer a lot!!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-12-31 16:09
I had to try 12 R13s to get to the one that sounded the most appealing to me.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-12-31 16:25
I've read that at one time, perhaps in the 50's/60's, the entire Boston Symphony clarinet section played on Selmer clarinets. I can not substantiate that....perhaps I read it here on the BB. Perhaps someone else can confirm with fact rather than just hearsay.
Personally, I enjoy playing my Selmers. They are very well in tune, are very free blowing, and I have a lot of flexiblitly. However, having said that, my LeBlanc is so much more even sounding and just seems so easy to play that it makes performing very enjoyable. I play the Selmer for jazz/pop and the LeBlanc for band and solo work.
jbutler
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Author: anon
Date: 2002-12-31 16:42
Sadly I bought my R-13 new out of a catalog with my teacher's guarantee that I wouldn't find a better horn. I'm rather disappointed because, yes, I have found other horns that I play better on.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-12-31 16:47
I've played "all the usual suspects" and Buffets still feel like a comfortable pair of shoes to me. However, I must say that I'm not too impressed with the "brushed plastic" one I bought this year.
Wow!!! 11 R-13s!!
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Author: Susan
Date: 2002-12-31 20:02
I play a Buffet R-13 because that is what my teacher played and he said it was the best. He had several of us buy them at the same time. He ordered a bunch of them and selected the best ones for us.
Before that, I was looking at clarinets and I found a Selmer that I liked, but he was not impressed with it. I really respected him and his opinion, so I went with Buffet. He basically sneered at Selmers and LeBlancs.
I guess I am Buffet Mafia too, when it comes to B-flats. I have a LeBlanc Bass clarinet on loan from the local community college that is just wonderful. I also borrowed the LeBlanc Eb from the college for a symphony concert, and it was excellent, too. The college is about 35 years old, and when it was started, they must have made an exclusively LeBlanc purchase for the bass, alto, and Eb's. The Bb's are Bundys and Yamahas.
Most of us in this area play Buffets. The two in the symphony do, and in our municipal band that plays in the summers, we have all Buffet with the exception of two LeBlancs. In the college band, we have two LeBlancs, 1 Yamaha, 1 Selmer, and four Buffets.
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Author: MC
Date: 2002-12-31 20:04
I'm a Selmer player. I have my old Selmer 10 (my parents bought it for me in 1975 or so), have owned a couple of 9*s and a 10G over the years, and just purchased a set of Selmer Signatures this year. I tried a couple of Rossi clarinets. I liked them, but they were just too far out of my budget. Had planned to try a Leblanc or two or three, but quit looking when I found a set of Sigs I liked. By the way, one of my clarinet buddies is card-carrying member of the Buffet mafia (I'm assuming, of course, that they actually carry cards...). He tried desperately to move me to Buffet when he found out I was in the market for a new set, but for some reason, the Buffets have just never "felt" right to me. He actually likes my new set, which is really saying something -- never thought I'd hear him say the "S" word without some sort of expletive either before or after it! :-)
I'm also a dog person:
Bette the Brittany
Sweety the Dog of Unidentifiable Heritage (Pekinese, terrier, and Shih Tzu mix, we think -- picture a very furry walking sausage with marbles for eyes...)
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-12-31 23:44
To Benny,
I really don't like Selmers. The Series 9 I played in college as I recall was just plain hard to play. considering I had previously played mostly bass clarinet having enough air should not have been an issue. It felt stuffy and resistant.Several years later the same school recruited me to play bass clarinet for them. Again on a Selmer. This instrument was clumsy, difficult to get it to respond and the keywork all seemed out of place. The keys were also hard to press down. And it did not respond well in the upper register. Not the case with my Buffet bass which I can play an extreme altissimmo Bb on.
Of course as these instruments were owned by a college part of the problem may have been that they had not been taken care of.
Jean
BTW, I interviewed Artie Shaw this summer and asked what he played. For big band when he needed to cut through all the sound he played Selmer. For small combo work he played Buffet. He also had an interesting momento from the Conn folks sitting on his mantle thanking him for his work for them. Guess you could say meeting Artie is my brush with greatness.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2003-01-01 05:46
Price also may well play a role, the R13 usually is the price leader of the pro level instruments.
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Author: johnny
Date: 2003-01-01 14:18
when i went to shop for my new horn I went to a dealer recommened by my teach. When I arrived at the dealer I realized that they only sold buffet and been seeling buffet pretty much forever. I was able to handpick from several r13s and finally came to the best match for me. It's not the fact that every horn is flawed but the fact that certain horns are best suited for different people because of small diversity of small differences in embosure and such. Buffet is known as the preimer horn by so many people for good reason. It seems to be the symbol of an experianced player, as I say only a symbol. Guess I'd better join the mob.
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Author: Preston
Date: 2003-01-01 14:26
I'm definitely a Buffet person. I play on a Buffet R13 Bb and a Buffet R13 Greenline A. I'm in the process of trying out new Buffet R13 Prestiges.
I started playing Buffets at first because my teachers all told me they were the best. I continue to play on them because they have a sweet sound that in my opinion Selmers and Leblanc can't imitate.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-01-01 18:12
Jean,
It's quite possible the school-owned Selmers you played didn't exactly recieve all the care a clarinet should have, and bent keywork could have been the problem on both of them. Then again, I find the Series 9 very easy to play, but one of my friends who tried my clarinet had trouble getting a good note out of it. Different clarinets are suited to different people and different styles, so if you've tried the rest and found Buffet to be the best, more power to you. :-) It's just the people who simply buy Buffet as a status symbol or because "so-and-so said it was good, even though I've never touched another clarinet other than my student model in my life" who I wonder about . . .
Also, do you have a copy of your interview with Shaw online somewhere that I could read it? I'm a big jazz fan, and I'd love to see it! Although Shaw doesn't rank tops on my list of favorites, I do like a lot of his stuff. :-)
P.S. Just a note - I don't mean to be picky, but you spelled my name wrong. :'] "Benny" with a "y" looks like a guy's name . . . (I was nicknamed by my friends after Benny Goodman [who does rank tops on my list of favorites ;-)], but they [and I] spell it with an "i")
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Author: Vaughn Stroheim
Date: 2003-01-01 23:00
Any brand of clarinet in the wrong hands can be a lethal weapon. A good player can play a plastic Bundy or Vito and a blind jury situation and no one would know the difference. Too much is being made of the "hardware", usually by the lesser talented striving for greatness.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-01-02 13:40
I have an R-13 and am in the process of purchasing a Selmer Signature. I also bought a new Corvette this year. I like to try new things and don't want to be stuck in a rut on something. After playing just about every brand on earth (starting with a Selmer Bundy), the R-13 remains my standard because I can count on being able to walk into any situation with other clarinetists and know I'll not have terrible tuning problems, etc. Also, most directors I've worked with want the R-13.
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-01-02 13:46
Please report back on both the Corvette and the Signature.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-01-02 15:10
Hank,
The corvette is awesome! It's quite civilized for a true sports car. My husband and I have driven it back and forth from Abilene, TX to Austin, TX (about a 200 mi. trip) several times and have felt great when we arrived. And for a couple of people over 50 that's something!
I've tried 5 Signatures in the past and have never found one that wasn't "stuffy." But, I love the key action and they way the instrument smoothly glides over the break. I have 2 coming in on approval and I've looked briefly at one of the two. It was a really nice instrument with just some fuzzy sound in the register key. The tech is going to look at that before I bring them home for my "trial" period. I'll let you know.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-01-05 05:28
I never play instruments BEFORE I tweak them. When I play them AFTER they are tweaked I notice very little difference between a good plastic one and the pro models, other than 'feel' from the materials under my fingers.
I have come to assume a possibility that some people detect tonal differences like professional wine tasters discern taste, while perhaps 95% of players and 99.5% of listeners perceive little or no tonal difference. Certainly, the differences obtained by diffent reeds, mouthpieces and players seem far greater than differences between well-tweaked instruments.
I also wonder if the feel of the materials under our fingers, and the pricese geometry/positioning of the keys, translates, in the minds of many players, into a tonal difference in their head. Most of us are very poor at clearly separating input from different senses.
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