 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Laur
Date: 2002-12-28 15:00
Hi.
I'm playing Waldweben ( Forests Murmurs ) by Richard Wagner for my upcoming auditions. It's from the Bonade Orchestral Studies for Clarinet. ( Page 94 )Quick question. What does it mean when 9=6 is written above the notes ? The time signature is 9/8, yet it is marked to be conducted in three. Are they basically saying it should be counted in 6 - 123, 456. By writing 9=6 ? Is the timesignature still 9/8 ? I am very confused.
Thanks !
Laurie.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-12-28 19:34
Laur -
I'm looking at the same spots. I've always heard the solos played with the 8th notes at the same speed throughout. I agree with you that the "9=6" indication could be interpreted to mean that the speed increases, so that 9 eighth notes are played in the previous space of 6, but that's much too fast. To confuse matters further, you have the big asterisks surrounding the groups of 9/8 measures, with a note at the bottom saying "The passages marked * are conducted in three."
The notation is nuts, anyway. In the next to last line, the second bar has a 4/4 time signature, but the first group has to be in 12/8, as does the following measure.
Bonade could make mistakes, just like McGinnis in International excerpt books. Get a look at the complete score before the audition. (All music libraries have the complete score to Siegfried, and you can also look at it in must large Borders or Barnes & Noble stores in the Dover reprint edition.) Then get the wonderful Cleveland Orchestra Wagner excerpts record on Sony Classics and listen to Marcellus play the solos.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-12-28 21:17
Laur...There are mistakes in the Bonade book on this excerpt. Check the authentic printed part (I looked at the Ricordi edition) and you will see some differences. There are also some discrepancies in the articulation, including one important tie which is missing.
In the Bonade book, the asterisks which indicate measures conducted in 3 should only be around the 4/4 passages. It is difficult to play those measures accurately, so I would suggest marking out the 3 beats in each of those measures.
For the 9=6 notation, put an imaginary bar line in that measure, and play it as two measures of 6/8, keeping the pulse the same.
Always try to look at the full score, or the specific clarinet part on all orchestral excerpts. There are mistakes, omissions, and often wrong notes in the excerpt books. As Larry, Ken and myself have often said, playing in an orchestra involves much, much more than just knowing your few minutes of exposed solos...GBK
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-12-28 21:44
I do not have the music in front of me at the moment but all that I can offer is that the tempo and beat remain the same. The conductor continues a steady beat which is contrary to the music's time signatures, that's all. The solo players job, as well as the w.w. section in general is to "average out" the speed of the notes within the bar regardless of time signature.
Again, the tempo that the conductor beats remains the same. The players have to change THEIR tempo to fit their notes into the bar, seemingly inconguous with the conductor's tempo.
This involves an intuitive kind of accelerando to catch up to the next bar line in several instances. What is even more challenging is that the w.w.'s have to do this collectively at several points.
My belief is that Wagner had in mind a "free" sounding, rhapsodic musical line that needed to be written out or "measured" to provide in some meaningful way for the ww's to play with a collective rubato...a "written out" spontinaety if there is such a thing.
After all, the forest "murmers" are meant to be spontaneous sounding, as in nature.
I played these passages with Marcellus conducting me in the teaching studio while his student, in the same way that he had seen them conducted by Szell. I asked how the ww's were able to sound together like they do on the Cleveland orch recording. He just told me it was one of those marvelous things about a great, homogeneous ww section. They "feel" or sense things together. Of course it was rehearsed and rehearsed until that perfectly together and tonally balanced result was achieved.
They recorded it twice. Once in 1957 and again in 1968 - both with slightly different personnel but that amazing homogeneous sound and togetherness that is perhaps, as many think, unparalleled to this day.
Later in my career, when we played and recorded it with the Chicago Symphony what was clear to me was the genius of Wagner's writing and the purpose that this compositional technique served.
Gregory Smith
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-12-29 14:55
Brilliant, Greg.
Mr. Bonade recorded these passages as well, many years before Marcellus did. What is amazing is the direct links between their styles, particularly the articulation.
The stereo Waldweben is one of Marcellus's best. . .I recommend it especially to those who still 'don't get' what was so great about him. It's available on both cd and sacd.
This is incredible music. . .
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-12-29 18:46
HAT:
"The stereo Waldweben is one of Marcellus's best. . .I recommend it especially to those who still 'don't get' what was so great about him. It's available on both cd and sacd. This is incredible music. . ."
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I have always felt that these passages along with perhaps the Octet and the Rosemunde music of Schubert along with the music of Mendelssohn such as the Hebrides, Italian Symphony, and Midsummernight's Dream are supreme examples of his playing.
Some that I've talked to base their opinion of Marcellus' artistry soley on a relatively narrow set of recorded examples that are the most readilly available such as the Mozart Concerto and a couple of excerpts that are truly beautifully played, but that don't necessarily show the dimension and depth of his capabilities as either soloist, orchestral, or chamber musician.
Gregory Smith
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-12-29 19:48
Greg said: "...Marcellus' artistry...a couple of excerpts that are truly beautifully played..."
At the top of that list, insert the Beethoven 6th, Beethoven 8th (3rd mvt) and the exquisitely expressive solo from the Schubert Unfinished...GBK
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-12-29 23:42
Yes GBK, those are some of my personal favorites!
I listed mine in part because I know in subsequent conversation about it with him that he also considered those that I listed as his personal favorites. I could then in retrospect understand why he felt that way.
Gregory Smith
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