 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: eBay Junky
Date: 2002-12-27 07:18
In an earlier post, someone said they had outgrown their "Basic R13".
Can you outgrow an R-13, or a Leblanc Concerto or any other comparable pro model for that matter? Assuming you have a decent clarinet to begin with, isn't the player the limiting factor?
Just wondering.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-27 09:49
I was the one who said that - and yes, I do think you can outgrow a 'basic' r13.
I'm gonna regret saying that, because I can't substantiate it with any evidence, just what I feel when playing my 'basic' r13, just like I felt with my last clarinet, a Conn (Elkhart, Indiana - apparently a jazz instrument!), shortly before my Dad got me my current r13.
That's all - no big discussion, just that I feel that my 'basic' (or 'standard') r13 can't cope with what I'm trying to do with it these days. Which is why I am seeking new and better instruments.
To me, I'll never reach 'perfection', but, I know that for the rest of my life I'll be striving for it. This is just another step!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: HAT
Date: 2002-12-27 12:58
To paraphrase something my teacher once said:
"When you know how to play, reeds, mouthpieces, barrels and clarinets all seem to be better."
In other words, hours in the practice room will pay off more in the long run than hours in the story honking on 'stuff.'
If I had to play Daniel Bonade's clarinets in a concert today, I would be freaked out. But he played them every day, brilliantly. He didn't know any better.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-12-27 13:10
What Hat said.
Pride in ownership is another matter, entirely.
It's a fine line between wanting the best and spending all your time widdling... better to play scales than entertain an obsession.
IT'S JUST A TOOL - the horn won't make you a hero.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-27 13:24
Basically I don't see how you can "outgrow" an R-13. Your other choices are merely lateral moves rather than being "better". Now some of the others may suit your playing needs better but are not better horns, merely different in design choices. Even the "premium" horns are not "better" they are just different/fancier (more keys, different plating, etc).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 13:40
The only thing you can outgrow is the mouthpiece.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-12-27 14:50
No, you cannot outgrow a basic R-13. Ask the professional players who make their living using one--like Gregory Smith and others. You can buy a clarinet with more keys--like the Buffet Prestige and Festival, Leblanc Opus and others. But, you cannot outgrow an R-13. When you get better than Mr. Smith, we'll talk.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-27 15:12
Greg Smith's r13s are also a lot different than the r13 you simply order through your local music store. I'll let him clarify is he so wishes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 15:14
There is no such thing as better than Greg Smith. If you are working to be better than a professional, you are entirely insane. RELAX.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 15:25
By the way, an R13 is not BASIC. If it were, wouldn't it be accessible to 4th and 5th graders nationwide? I think it's silly to be calling an R13 basic. I am a college student and it still giving me problems. It's like calling Olympic Sports basic. You just don't do that. I don't believe this. BASIC means easy to play. LIKE A VITO OR SELMER BEGINNER INSTRUMENT. You outgrow those, but by no means an R13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 15:31
AND if the R13 were BASIC, the pros, such as Stoltzman, my private teachers, Shifrin, Spring, Gringras, and Gigliotti wouldn't be playing on it. An R13 is extremely advanced. I mean would a college student go out looking a for a LeBlanc Colored Instrument? NO. An R13 that is extremely resistant and will work with a free-blowing mouthpiece.
My Setup Clarinet Bulletin Board:
1) B-Flat(AND NO A CLARINET: I DON'T MIND) R13
2) Bonade Regular Ligature
3) Vandoren B40(AFTER M13, 5RVLyre, and Greg Smith)
4) Vandoren 4's and
5) Buffet Barrel
I am not changing. AT ALL.
If this instrument were basic, I would get yelled at by my private clarinet teacher at my college and the head of the music department because the R13 is very resonant and powerful. Do basic clarinets sound powerful? Absolutely, positively NOT. Keep practicing. There's obviously something dreadfully wrong if you think the R13 is basic.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msroboto
Date: 2002-12-27 16:01
Morrigan -
I understand your need to have the best instruments you can afford. Just realize that a hand picked Greg Smith R-13 is still an R-13. It will be the best he can find for you and this is some advantage. The big thing is it is going to be Brannenized. You might be underestimating what Brannenizing can do for your current instrument.
Just my 2 cents...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-12-27 16:23
And a very Happy New Year to the "R-13 Mafia." Maybe that's why I have three sets of golf clubs.
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-27 16:29
Bob,
Saying that you can't "outgrow" an R-13 is by no means subscribing to the concept that the R-13 is the only great instrument to own. Personally I prefer the Leblanc line as it suits me better. However neither is a better instrument, they are just different. If a person is not satisfied with their R-13, by all means try something different but do so on the concept that each has its own design goals which may or may not suit a particular player. Changing would be a lateral move to a more appropriate match but you aren't "upgrading". i.e. You don't "outgrow" it, you just become more able to determine what suits you and that may or may not be an R-13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-12-27 16:32
The R-13 clarinets most pros use are exactly like the ones you purchase with the exception of cork pads and some tweeking of springs and other very minor changes. The actual acoustics of the instrument and the wood remain an R-13. You can have the same things done to yours through Brannen Woodwinds.
I have played clarinet for 43 years and have played almost every kind and level of clarinet on the market, including vintage clarinets. I've played Opus, Symphonie VII, Buffet Prestige (which, by the way is an R-13 with an extra eb/ab key and a bit of a bore modification), Buffet Festival, Leblanc LL, Leblanc LX, Selmer S10, Selmer Signature, Yamaha 64, R-13 Greenlines and more standard R-13s than I can count. The one I can count on fitting in with orchestra, band and almost every situation is the R-13.
My personal favorite is a good Leblanc Opus--hard to find these days. But, my standard is my R-13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike
Date: 2002-12-27 17:10
I can relate to what Morrigan is saying. I got my R-13 when I was a freshman in high school. I played on it all through high school and most of college with great success. However, over time my playing has changed. What I originially liked about it was how responsive and free blowing it was. Now, I feel it is TOO free blowing. I would like a little more center and control. It is also a little too bright for my taste. I have played on my teacher's clarinet and felt and heard a big difference.
There's also the issue that clarinets blow out. My clarinet does not play the same way it used to because of cracking and the general fact that they open up over time. My teacher who plays in the Virginia Symphony, replaces her clarinet about every 7 years for this very reason.
With this said, the equipment can only take you so far. A nice clarinet is no substitue for poor playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-27 17:29
At this point in time, there is no objective proof that clarinets "blow out". However, after 7 years any professional clarinet should be treated to a complete, professional grade overhaul to return it to like new condition.
As far as resistance and brightness goes, perhaps another reed/mouthpiece combo is more appropriate for your current musical goals.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-12-27 17:40
Some comments on others comments:
"By the way, an R13 is not BASIC. If it were, wouldn't it be accessible to 4th and 5th graders nationwide?"
It is -- as long as their parents plunk down the money, they can have one. Now, whether it can be appreciated by a player of that age and experience is another matter.
"I think it's silly to be calling an R13 basic. I am a college student and it still giving me problems."
Why do you assume it is the instrument giving you the problems?
"BASIC means easy to play."
No. Basic means fundamental -- and, believe it or not, it is the "fundamentals" that are lacking in most players. To be fundamentally sound in all aspects of clarinet playing and music making is not as easy as you may think. A good clarinet is not going to solve those considerations.
"AND if the R13 were BASIC, the pros, such as Stoltzman, my private teachers, Shifrin, Spring, Gringras, and Gigliotti wouldn't be playing on it."
And all of their instruments are different, individual clarinets, selected with certain aspects and characteristics important to the particular player, which are not necessarily the same as yours. You may not be able to feel comfortable with my R-13's and I might feel that yours (or any of theirs!) are unplayable -- except for Mr. Gigliotti's, who played a Selmer in recent years until his death (try to stay current, OK?...). There are a lot of personal concerns involved in the selection of a clarinet -- even an R-13.
"An R13 that is extremely resistant and will work with a free-blowing mouthpiece."
You need to try more instruments. Not every R-13 is or has been extremely resistant.
"With this said, the equipment can only take you so far. A nice clarinet is no substitue for poor playing."
Yep -- truer words were never said. I'd rather hear a competent player on a Bundy than a hack on a....uhhh....basic R-13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 18:26
NICE CLARINET NICE CLARINET. What do you mean. TRY SUPERB.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 18:28
Why are you/we picking on the R13 when there are other clarinet brands out there?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 18:30
And why are you picking on a 22 year old fifth year college student. R13's are required at my school. Oh, and these clarinets are basic. Only my first college teacher and my second college teacher play them. I wonder...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 18:32
I'm nailing you because it took 12 R-13's to find the right one for me. The others don't sound as full. If you consider this clarinet to be Basic, you have a problem. It sounds like y'all are complaining about a computer program, say Microsoft?
And that's all you'll hear from me, I think. I guess I just was taught from some of the best teachers in the country. But, you don't think so.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brandon
Date: 2002-12-27 18:35
I don't think that the R-13 is too basic. I will have to disagree though with a previous post that said there has been no proof that clarinets 'blow out.' Throughout my experiences, I would certainly have to say that clarinets lose their ability to vibrate correctly. The clarinet must vibrate in order to produce a good 'ringing' sound. Most amateurs could not distinguish the difference, and they try and justify the lack of resistance by playing on a stronger reed. This will lead of course to the dull, thucky sound that has no life and ring to it. An overhaul can help with the keywork of course. But to accoustically ressurect the sound, I am skeptical. If the instrument has in this case lost its vibration or 'blown out', then it is time to either replace it or upgrade.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RonD
Date: 2002-12-27 18:49
I thought it was the air column that vibrated not the instrument .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Benny
Date: 2002-12-27 19:19
Clarinets really cannot be "outgrown." My teacher plays on a Buffet he got for $70 (yes, brand new) in France after WWII. He plays it just fine. However, a clarinet will be in its "prime" (when it sounds best) only for about 10-15 years in most cases.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-27 20:14
Please prove with scientific measurements (NOT anecdotal stories) that clarinets blow out.
A truly complete overhaul is more than just pads, corks, springs & and mechanical adjustments. It can include things like cleaning the virtually invisible buildup out of the toneholes, etc.
Please prove with scientific measurements that the clarinet vibrates. Only the air column is supposed to.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2002-12-27 20:32
Morrigan seems to have lost faith in the instrument or relationship with it. Whatever the reason may be, whether objectively justifiable or not, it suggests a parting of the ways for them. Someone else can have the R13 and live happily ever after. Morrigan can move on to something else.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brandon
Date: 2002-12-27 21:17
Sorry Dee. I am in the field of arts management. I put the artists onstage. If you don't have scientific measurments that prove what you say, then I would imagine that we will both go and cross our arms and maintain the same position before the conversation started. However, the clarinet does vibrate. If you cannot FEEL it in your fingertips, then something is wrong. I have played many clarinets. Those that do not vibrate properly also do not have the same quality sound of those clarinets that do vibrate correctly. Perhaps it is just from a different school of thought. This is the thought of Daniel Bonade. Which I would imagine was the thought of Marcellus, my teachers teacher. If you don't think that a clarinet vibrates, that is that most asinine thing I have heard today! Go play just about any note, and with the proper air support the clarinet should vibrate too!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 21:26
Since wood increases and decreases when hot air is blown into it, the wood vibrates. The air column doesn't. No scientific proof, just basics. The wood needs to vibrate, other wise the clarinet will crack.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-27 21:26
No the clarinet body is not supposed to vibrate. What you feel in your fingertips is the air itself vibrating through the tone holes not the wood. You are confusing the construction theory with instruments like violin, piano, guitar etc that have a soundboard that is supposed to vibrate.
Material in a clarinet makes no difference for the very reason that the body of the instrument doesn't vibrate.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-27 21:28
Anon, you are very confused. Vibration of the wood would not stop it from cracking. Actually, if it vibrated, it would increase its chances of cracking due to fluctuating stresses.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarence
Date: 2002-12-27 22:31
Anon,
Sorry but I don't believe anything you have said so far. Dee is closer to the truth. There are some very good articles on clarinet accostics on the web. Do a search with a search engine.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 23:08
Actually, Dee has one opinion, and me another. So Dee is correct in a way, and me another. You just believe Dee because of who Dee is. You don't believe me because of the training I've had. And, I'm terribly sorry, but that is the way life goes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-12-27 23:15
Dee,
It's the most ridicules theory I've ever heard. Violin, guitar, piano and clarinet have more similarities than differences in the way sound is produced.
Sound source (vibrating string, reed) >>>> Vibrating source makes air to vibrate (in a sound chamber, inside a clarinet) >>>>> vibrating air makes material to vibrate. Vibrating material always adds color to the sound. Different material will add different color (bright, dark or dull) to the quality of the sound.
Some thoughts:
Not everybody has a perfect pitch and not everybody can hear the difference in the tone. My mom thinks all clarinets sound the same. I think EVERY clarinet sounds different. Green line R13 doesn't sound the same as a wooden R13.
When I play a note on the clarinet the only one (some times two) tone hole is used to produce a certain pitch. How come I can feel vibration in the rings, wood, all tone holes, my teeth, my bones and my brain...LOL.... I could answer this, but you wouldn't believe it anyway....LOL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2002-12-27 23:22
I've been playing my R13's for over thiry years and have been watching very carefully--so far, they have not grown a nanometer of length. Outgrow an R13--not a chance!!!
BTW, I have a set of LeBlanc Concerto's that Tom Ridenour spent hours tweeking (at the factory in Kenosha) to perfection and they are a joy to play, but I prefer the sound and expressive flexability my old R13's in the orchestra or band. Once in the "Mafia", I guess you can't get out. Just my two cents worth for anyone still reading this thread. Happy Holidays, All........
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-12-28 00:53
Man, and I thought I was tired of shovelling SNOW!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-28 01:30
Refer to the standard works on clarinet acoustics such as the research by Benade. They are readily available via internet dealers. It's not just my opinion. These things have been measured.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-28 01:38
Also there are standard works on the acoustics of violins and pianos. You can compare the acoustic mechanism of these to the clarinet and you will find that the clarinet (and other woodwinds and brasswinds) use quite a different mechanism to produce their sounds.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Larry Combs
Date: 2002-12-28 02:23
I went off to music school with my set off LeBlanc Symphonie clarinets and was surprised to discover everyone else playing Buffet R13. My teacher Stanley Hasty gently suggested that I change and as soon as possible I did, and happily played Buffet well into my career as an orchestral player.
When I had an opportunity to try the (then) new Opus Leblancs (designed mostly by Tom Ridenour) I realized that these instruments had the best qualities of the R13 but without some of the problems, I grew out of the R13!
.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-28 02:24
I wasn't going to comment.. But...
Anon, being taught by 'the best' doesn't make you any sort of authority on these subjects. People actively seeking your knowledge does - and opinion is another thing altogether.
Also, being taught by 'the best' doesn't even make you a great player - only YOU can do that, as YOU ARE YOUR BEST TEACHER. You will learn more from yourself than you will any teacher. I'm not attacking you here, I'm not saying you're not a great player, because I don't even know you, nor have I heard you play. In fact, I basically know nothing about you.
However, you reference to yourself 'knowing' things that are purely subjective then passing them onto us as fact is deemed unwise, by any standard, not to mention dangerous.
My two cents on this topic is that while you cannot 'outgrow' an r13 (which is how I put it, and I'm sorry if I haven't expressed myself explicitly enough), I feel that my instrument has taken me almost as far as I can go. I feel, going into college, that new and better instruments will really help me excel, and, as I'm sure most of you agree, you only want to do as well as you can through college. I am always pushing myself to be the best I can be, then go further. Call me stupid, agrue what you will, but, I believe I can go past what your basic r13 has to offer.
Let me define 'basic' now!
The r13 is, by no means, basic. Of course.
However, when you buy your r13 from the store, it is new - with defaul pads and default spring tensions etc etc, I could go on forever.
However, getting a little more advanced, like I have, is getting the pads that you think will work best and give the best sound. In my case, cork on the upper joint, and leather on the lower joint. Then, you can have your spring tensin adjusted, for easier finger movement. For me, this involved having many of them lightened. The next stage would be having acoustical changes made to the actual instrument itself. An example of this would be brannenizing. I haven't had any acoustical changes made to mine as I have been mostly happy with it.
I hope I've shed some light on what my opinions are, as I feel that the basis for 'agrument' here is that everyone has a different perception of the terms mentioned here, such as 'outgrow' and 'basic'.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brandon
Date: 2002-12-28 04:25
You are your best teacher? Very few people I know, have heard of, etc. have become great by being their best teacher. The best thing one can do themselves is to discern the information. Is my teacher an idiot? Is it time to move on? But I don't know any great musician, artist, philosopher, etc. that didn't become great by not having a great teacher.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jim lande
Date: 2002-12-28 05:47
Of course you can outgrow an R13. If your hands get really big, you may have to play an alto or even a bass clarinet. If most of your relatives drag their knuckles, then ask a doctor about hormone shots. Maybe there is some treatment.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: James
Date: 2002-12-28 11:53
I think people are misunderstanding what my friend Morrigan is trying to relay to all of us. As we all know, there are huge differences in the quality of R13 clarinets. Some are really good and some are just plain horrible instruments.
I can best relate to him thinking about my R13 clarinets. When I was a six grader (yes I know this was insane) my father bought an r13 from a “made for public school needs” music store. At the time I had no idea what a good clarinet was or felt like. I just picked one (out of the two I had to pick from). This I am sorry to say is one of those horrible R13 clarinets. It is resistant, stuffy, acoustically challenged (and ironically the best in tune r13 I have ever touched) I bet you most E11 clarinets would be able to play better than old R13 clarinet. With that said, as my musical endeavors expanded and my playing grew out of it. I switched around horns, buffet to Leblanc and since a year ago, back to buffet. I really do think I did grew out of my old r13. I love my new r13 clarinet.
Yes there are some significant differences from the set up I used now compared to the set up I used then. Right now I use a (branennized) R13 (silver plated keys) with a Chadash barrel and a much better mouthpiece. Really though all these extra things are perks. I know that if I were to make my current r13 “basic” again. I would still love it and it would still be a million times better than my old horn. Perhaps Morrigan was where I was, just stuck with a poor horn.
On another note. A combination of what a few people said. I really like an excellent Leblanc opus. Like the horns that first came out when opus was first introduced. I really do feel those are like what like Mr. Combs said “these instruments had the best qualities of the R13 but without some of the problems” But now I feel like the new ones are just as someone else put it, a “lateral switch”
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-28 13:16
Once again James, you're right on the money! I just couldn't find a good way to say all that - the best example I could come up with was the story of my old Conn horn. But thanks, you said it bro.
=]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anonymous
Date: 2002-12-28 14:19
It also depends on the mouthpiece and the musician, not just the instrument. I'm just trying to help.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brenda siewert
Date: 2002-12-28 14:20
Ok, you need new pads--granted that helps.
If you want new instruments, that's up to you. Sometimes a new instrument with nice, crisp action and new feel and sound gives us just the "boost" we need to tackle new music and territories. In that respect we "outgrow" our old instrument. Although that old instrument could be picked up by a talented player and be used to play Mozart, etc. for years to come.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2002-12-28 18:14
In the grand scheme of things, I think a measurable definition of "basic" and "outgrow" is too subjective for all to agree on. To me, a "basic" R-13 is strictly entry-level. It’s shipped straight from the distributor with no alterations or prep other than unboxing/unbagging/cork stops and a quick once over for leaks. No articulated keys, nickel-plated and aside from a custom mpc it's played on the stock barrel and bell. As for "outgrowing" an R-13, I don’t think it’s possible for any “professional/premium brand” horn provided it’s in mechanically sound playing condition. It always goes back to the quality of the musician and the "total sum" of their skill and experience. Perhaps I’m over-simplifying the issue, but any one of us can hand our horns to a more advanced clarinetist (of any idiom) and about 2 seconds flat. v/r KEN
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-12-28 18:26
"In the grand scheme of things, I think a measurable definition of "basic" and "outgrow" is too subjective for all to agree on.....It always goes back to the quality of the musician and the "total sum" of their skill and experience."
Amen. Thank you, Ken.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2002-12-28 18:46
Pardon me, I should've put my glasses on. A better player would "settle the question for us" in about 2 seconds flat is what I meant...duh. Thank you Larry, I know you're a working professional and along with a few others posters here speak the same language on certain topics and shared experiences.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-12-30 01:04
Dee, don't mean to bring up acoustics again - which I have very little study in - but isn't vibration contagious? The force behind the vibrations causes it's surroundings to move as well, doesn't it?(Like I said, I could be completely wrong.) But then, that means that there is indeed force on the wood. But I haven't looked at it in great detail, so I'm assuming you're right. It really doesn't matter <i>what's</i> vibrating just so long as I have a good sound.
Contragirl... I thought <b>I</b> was the best ever! But I agree with you on the contra bit. Imagine outgrowing THAT!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-30 01:43
David Pegel wrote:
>
> Dee, don't mean to bring up acoustics again - which I
> have very little study in - but isn't vibration contagious? The
> force behind the vibrations causes it's surroundings to move as
> well, doesn't it?(Like I said, I could be completely wrong.)
> But then, that means that there is indeed force on the wood.
The clarinet body does indeed vibrate, but its output is on average 60 db less than the air column (1/1,000,000 of the amount the air column contributes). It's not negligible, but it's a very tiny component. That being said, it <b>is</b> interesting that adding mass to the clarinet body in different places <b>does</b> audibly change the resultant sound.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alec Thigpen
Date: 2002-12-30 04:19
I am playing on a 22 year old R-13 that I bought new, and it plays as well now as it did then, an overhaul later.
The body does resonate or vibrate, proven by the fact that my electronic pickup clamped anywhere on the body accurately measures the pitch being played. (It does not pick up when held below the bell, so just the sound waves don't do it.) That vibration or resonance may not be significant to the listener, I don't know that, but the timbre and tone quality, when played by another player (so I can be more objective as listener) is far better than her own Yamaha and Leblanc w/art. G# key horn. She borrows it now at every opportunity, as I am playing bass for now.
I do think my Prestige 1193 bass is superb and superior in sound to the 1183, but I don't know if the Prestige soprano has a noticably better sound than the R-13.
I believe you can "outgrow" a clarinet, if "outgrow" is a useful word, but I don't think you can really get much better than a well made R-13. Different keywork and layout, different sound, but I don't think you will become a better player by changing between top tier instruments unless a newer or different instrument gives you the inspiration to practice more. As hardware goes, the mouthpiece is a bigger factor than which of the top line horns you play.
Morrigan may indeed have outgrown his clarinet if a different one gives him motivation and inspiration, or he owns a "bad day" Buffet. Most likely it is something else, given the information offered, that he is about to emter college. I was there once too, 30 years ago. It's funny how much you know at that age. I was a darn genius! Full scholarship, first part first year, first chair second year, I'm not nearly as smart now, but I'm much happier.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bob gardner
Date: 2002-12-30 04:31
what would be interesting would be to wear a blindfold and then play three or four differant clarinet with the same mouthpiece and reed. One of them would have to be your present r13 and then see which one you like the best. To make this fair you would have to have the other horn be of the same quality.
if you try this let me/us know the results.
happy 2003.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-12-30 09:02
Ken said:
"In the grand scheme of things, I think a measurable definition of "basic" and "outgrow" is too subjective for all to agree on....."
=================================================================
I'll add something near the end from my POV that I agree with Ken's assessment about the nature of the language being used. Most all of the discussion seems to be illustrative of this very point.
Based on what I've read to this point, there really seems to be no way to carry on a discussion using these two relatively subjective terms that would be of any meaningful benefit - even if only serendipidously to a small minority of it's readers.
Gregory Smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
