 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-26 00:00
Hiya guys!
Well, it's coming closer to January, when I am going to start organising getting myself a new set of Buffet R13s, have someone select them for me, Brannenized, with BAM case.
I *was* going to get them through International (my teacher would organise everything for me), however, I've been quoted about AU$14,000. I have been willing to pay this, considering how sublime these instruments are (one of his students has a Bb from the same 'source').
However, a reliable source tells me I can get the whole thing cheaper through Weiner in NYC. However, a few extra costs would be involved when sending to Chicago for brannenizing. However, he gave me an approximate price, which was MUCH cheaper than the aforementioned quote. I emailed them, asking for a quote for specifically what I want - and all they said was "call us". They know damn well I'm in Australia!
Can anyone second my source's opinion that Weiner would be cheaper, and just as good as a hand-selected instrument from International? How do I go about finding someone to select my instruments, and how much would they charge?
I'd really appreciate it if anyone could tell me anything they know that would shed light on any aspect of this situation.
I have an aunt who lives in NYC who I can ask to get the exact quote for me, so that will help a lot. But, the question of 'which is better?' is still on my mind. In the end, the money wouldn't be so much of an issue if it turned out the more expensive one was better.
Thanks in advance, guys. This is gonna be hard to organise, and because I'm way over here, I'm basically in the dark about some of this stuff.
=]
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-12-26 00:19
Morrigan,
I would go through IMS even though a little bit more expensive. Lisa is a good performer and already has the hand selected "Brannenized" R-13's selected by Gregory Smith. I think you would always second guess your decision if you went the other way. By the time you payed Weiner for the clarinet and then sent it on to the Brannens the cost difference, perhaps, would not be that much. You would also have to wait a bit longer while the clarinets were in the Brannen's repair facility.
The other choice is to select them yourself. I do not know the availablity of the Buffets in Australia, but I notice one or two companies located in Australia selling new clarinets on eBay quite often.
I know it is a tough decision to make. Good luck.
jbutler
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-26 00:29
Thanks JB, I had an email from someone directing me to a place in Australia, which I visit quite often to try their new stock (one of my best friends works there, so I could get it VERY VERY cheap if I wanted to), however, the R13s i've tried from International are simply not comparable to Australia's stock... WOW they're beautiful.
But thanks for telling me that, I didn't actually know who selected them, but now that I know it's Greg Smith, I may just question my teacher some more about them! I'll see what price he can do, because I KNOW he makes a profit himself too...
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-12-26 01:53
Point of clarification.
I do not select IMS' clarinets. The owner Lisa Argiris personally selects her stock from the distributor.
However, what I DO offer is a personally hand selected Buffet from IMS which is a special order item. It is on their website and the info is readily available.
These "Gregory Smith Hand Select Clarinet" instuments are not "pre-stocked" by IMS in any manner. When an order is placed I then begin a search for a clarinet through IMS that meets my own personal criteria (hence the commission). Sometimes I find something relatively soon and sometimes it takes a few weeks or a couple of months. Nothing short of a Brannenized instrument meet my basic criteria. I have relied on their unparalleled artistry my entire career.
Please visit the website for more info and fax or email Lisa personally if you are so inclined.
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.
Gregory Smith
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-12-26 01:59
Gregory,
Thanks for the clarification. I was going by the ad in IMS catalogue. Sorry if I communicated erroneous information.
jbutler
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-26 02:19
Thanks Greg!
I remember you telling Robert Schubert here that the quality of clarinets in Australia wasn't good enough. I agree - I was lucky to at least get a Buffet R13 that has last me up until the start of college, considering it was simply ordered for me.
I'll definitely check their web site! Thanks!
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-12-26 05:00
Dear Morrigan,
What I heard from my colleagues in Australia during my recital tour there last year was that the availability of quantities of clarinets from which to choose could sometimes be a problem.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-12-26 07:38
Morrigan, I don't think Australia is selected by Buffet as a destination for inferior R-13s. I bought one in Perth in my second year of learning 3 years ago. I did not really have a clue about how to choose. Nevertheless, having bought the only R-13Bb I tried, everyone says that it is a beautiful sounding instrument. Cost was A$ 2600. I have seen them in the same store recently for less than A$3000. What an R-13 A clarinet would cost I don't know. My own feeling would be that I would have some faith in my own judgement in your place, considering that you are a fairly advanced student and can put the instrument through its paces. Can you take your teacher with you while trying them out? I am basing this on the apparently much cheaper local prices. If I had money to "spare", I would go with Greg Smith. Although a clarinet he may like will not necessarily please you as much as one you had selected yourself. Also, I don't know how much store to put in the maker's "matched pair" label. Matched by whom and how? Self reliance is not a bad thing, and it does cut out a lot of people from being blamed for a "poor choice". Happy Christmas.
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Author: Mike
Date: 2002-12-26 13:04
Morrigan,
Why do you need someone to select a clarinet for you? Why not pick it out yourself? I'm going to Weiner myself in January to buy a new Buffet R13 Bb. I'm also going to Vince Marinelli's in Delaware and Chuck Levin's in Maryland. I would never let someone else pick out a clarinet for me because everyone plays differently. You really ought to take the time to visit a place that has a good stock and play through them or order several from a catalog to guarantee that you get the best one possible.
Best of luck,
Mike~
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-26 13:35
Mike
I live in Australia. Enough said.
I've played on several of Greg Smith's selected clarinets, and found them all to completely excel in all aspects. So much so that I completely trust him to pick them out, and know that given the quality of what I've tried in the past, I know I'll get what I am looking for.
Besides that, I'm paying so much, I only want the best - and I don't feel that I'm able to pick out the best. I don't feel I've got the necessary skills to choose a set out for myself.
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2002-12-26 13:59
Morrigan,
Thant AUS $14,000 price scares me - it seems way out of line at almost $8000 USD. Perhaps you're getting a pair? I didn't think that even with customs duty, hand selection, and "brannenization" you'd end up close to quadrupling the price of the base instrument.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-12-26 14:58
I agree with Mark. That figure sounds outrageous to me. Please do not pay so much without checking out Greg's suggestion. I have bought many, many clarinets from Lisa at IMS and had great results with every instrument. But, I also recommend Gregory Smith above all others as one who is qualified to hand-select an instrument or set of instruments for you. Before you spend so much money, check Greg's price. You will not be sorry. He is a true professional and an honest gentleman as well.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-12-26 15:03
You might also contact this music store http://www.whitehouseofmusic.com
The used to offer Buffet clarinets hand-selected by Russ Dagon, former Principal Clarinetist of the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra and professor of clarinet at Northwestern Univeristy (and one of my former teachers)
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-12-26 19:58
I dunno, that's an awful lot of extra dough to shell out for what might be just a simple lack of confidence and faith in one's skill; me thinks maybe we want the Smith-tested horns for bragging rights? <;-)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-27 03:13
That price tag (an estimated quote, as well as 'worst case scenario' ammount) is for a hand-selected set, brannenized, with BAM case, including shipping and import tax (at 10%).
I am yet to get a quote from Greg Smith (as IMS's exclusive packet), as I haven't emailed him - I will definitely do so at the start of January or when the holiday season is over.
Ken - my teacher believes I have 'outgrown' my basic R13, that now I need something more to last me through college and into a career. I don't own an A clarinet, so it's worth buying a whole new set and selling my old Bb once the new ones have been broken in.
I really appreciate all your help, you've all shed so much more light on all this for me!
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-12-27 06:32
Morrigan,
>I live in Australia. Enough said.
Nothing wrong with living in Australia, or is there??
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-27 09:37
As Gregory Smith just said a few posts up, here in Australia, we have very little stock to choose from.
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Author: Anon
Date: 2002-12-27 13:49
Why a "new set of R13's" when a R13 is a superb clarinet. You should focus more on developing tone quality than changing instruments. I am focussing on my tone quality by changing the mouthpieces to what I feel is my comfort zone. You should be doing this too.
My setup: R13, B40, Vandoren 4's, Bonade Regular Ligature, and Buffet Barrel.
I'm proud of it too.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-12-27 14:41
Morrigan,
Unless you have reason to believe that your current R13 was an inferior instrument from the start, you might consider the following strategy:
1. Send your current R13 to the Brannens and have it Brannenized (or to the best clarinet tech in Australia -- where do the local symphony pros send their instruments?). Perhaps all it needs is a first rate overhaul/setup. It should come back a much improved horn. If it comes back and you find it adequte for your needs, you will have saved quite a bit of money, at least for the time being. If it comes back and you still feel you need "more" instrument, then go ahead and buy a new one through whatever channel you wish and keep your old one as a backup (which you will eventually need as a professional).
2. Go ahead and order your A through whatever source you choose. From your previous messages, it sounds like you have reached a point where you probably need one. Buying the two together vs. buying the two separately should not be an issue (unless you get a discount on a set). As has been pointed out numerous times on both this board and the clarinet list "matched pair" is an oxymoron when it comes to clarinets.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-27 15:24
Anon
Generally, the r13 is a great instrument, yes. However, because they are so mass-produced, there are more bad ones than good (in my opinion). I'm looking for those absoloutely brilliant ones! If you'd played one of these, you'd know.
I've been studying music in a music high school for 2 years, just compeleted one year at Melbourne Conservatorium and just got into the Victorian College of the Arts - I think I've practised my long notes and scales by now, enough to know my instrument won't take me too much further as is!
jnk
I had a very good overhaul about 2 years ago from what is one of Australia's finest repair techs, and have maintained my instrument in great condition since.
The fact remains that I could be playing on better clarinets than what I currently own - instruments that could take me further; give a better sound, offer better tuning, be technically and mechanically better, and last longer. All the above and many more I haven't mentioned contribute to greater musical freedom, and isn't that our eventual goal? The pursuit of artistic excellence through mastery of technique?
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-12-28 01:55
Morrigan, you are obviously determined to blow a large sum on new clarinets, whatever your reason. If you can, however, stop to think that the quality of your sound is affected in descending order of importance as you descend from your lips (assuming a horn in good order and quality), you may find a better black hole for your cash.
Personally I have achieved more improvement by experimenting with mpcs, ligatures and reeds than I could possibly have done by doing so with the basic horn.
There is a saying that a great clarinetist will sound great on a cheap clarinet, but a poor one will not become great on a great horn. Jack's suggestion sounds spot-on to me. Unless you were very unlucky and happened to buy the rare lemon, your R-13 should be more than acceptable. If I may ask, tongue-in-cheek, how much would you sell your inferior instrument for?
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-28 02:01
Thanks Karel... But it's hardly inferior. I just happen to know I could do better.
I'm really getting tired of trying to justify myself here; I have my reasons, and I've got all the information I started this post for, so thanks to all who helped me out.
Once again, a huge thank you to Gregory Smith!
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Author: Dez(Australia)
Date: 2002-12-28 04:16
I remember how hard it was to get through the conservatorium and all the pressures of life, but If I had started with a $14000 debt I dont think I would be here now. Spend money on reeds and mouthpieces, much better than forking out on new horns(maybe a new A would be good though). Also think with that money you could get a new Buffet or Selmer Bass...much more of an investment as it will definately help your work prospects later on, and more FUN!. I havent looked back since getting my Buffet Brestige.
Think a little more about it, sounds like you have allready made your decision, but maybe you shouldn't have yet!
Dezza
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-12-28 04:27
Give him a break. Everyone wants a nice pair of instruments to play on.
"Also think with that money you could get a new Buffet or Selmer Bass...much more of an investment as it will definately help your work prospects later on"...... And a good pair of standard instruments wouldn't?? Morrigan is probably wrong with that AU$14000 anyway, it will probably be cheaper than that. And these instruments are to last him a long time.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-28 05:59
Thanks Nick
And $14,000 was a 'worse-case-scenario' quote - like I've already said, I've found a much cheaper deal. Keep in mind that price was inclusive of a custom case as well as import tax.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-12-28 06:42
PS> Dez - "...I dont think I would be here now". Where are you now?
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-12-28 06:51
Morrigan, your attitude suggests to me that you are spending someone else's money than yours, whether it be a scholarship or a reward from your parents for a successful audition. In neither case do I see a sensible relationship between the cost (even if it were half) and the possible gain. It's a pity that you opened up this discussion instead of indulging your folly in peace and quiet.
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Author: Dez(Australia)
Date: 2002-12-30 04:25
Morrigan, this is sounding very like the problem with a lot of people in society nowadays. They would rather have the fast ferrari, the mansion or whatever just to be happy. And what happens when the debt hits them??? Do you have a good job to pay off your loan?
Where would I be today? probably dead as I could not stand all the pressures of Uni and a $14000 debt.
Just go out and be happy with a pair of R13's then maybe get them brannenized. After all the players I have met and known, it was definately not the instrument that made them good players and most I have known have never had theirs Brannenized etc. And yes a normal R13 is just fine for making quality music on.
Dez
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Author: Rob W
Date: 2003-01-12 01:00
I have to agree. There are more bad R13s than good...and you have to try every damn one you can get your hand on when it comes to making a decision. I went through so many I wound up in a dead heat between an R13 and a Vintage.
I chose the Vintage.
Rob
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