 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Malaya
Date: 2002-12-26 05:12
ok... i've posted stuff on here before... 16 year old kid with grandma's ancient B&H Edgware... i've searched for a production date/age/value, but gave up, and now i've got questions about the junk that came with it. (ha-ha) there were 2 barrells in the original case, a short, narrow one with the marking "4 mm. S" on it... then, there's a taller, fatter one with just the gold Boosey and Hawkes globe emblem. (no model name, size, etc.) the man who repaired it when i first started playing told me to use the smaller of the 2, because it would sound better. (there was a real purpose, but at 12, i had no idea what he was talking about, so i soon forgot.) could someone tell me what to do with the larger barrel, or what they were intended for?? and, if the smaller one is an original part of the original instrument? there was also a mouthpiece with the clarinet... i'd assume it's plastic, though i'm really not a judge of such things... it says, "personaline", "brilhart", and has "s5" on one side and "63767" on the other... any clue as to the quality of this piece?? i'd say it's just an inexpensive, generic one... but i could be wrong. (grandma lived in a teeeeny town in WV with one puny music store...) any info any of you all have would be cool... i'm not expecting "big news" on the mouthpiece. (i'm afraid to play on it!) but info on the barrels would be helpful. thanks a lot!!
*~*Malaya*~*
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-12-26 12:33
Hi Malaya,
That's very nice to have your grandmother provide you with the clarinet. Also, even having a small music store in your town these days is a major treasure (a connection with the bigger world of music).
One the barrel, my guess is the 4MS means that the barrel is 4 mm shorter than the one that should normally be used (and in my opinion, probably too short for your needs unless the instrucment plays very flat). Why not measure the length of both barrels in mm; my guess is the longer one is around 65-66mm and the shorter one is 61 to 62mm.
On the mouthpiece, it is much beyond a generic one. I don't play a Brilhart on clarinet but have several that I use on sax. Yours is most likely from them period (maybe they still do) when Brilhart numbered them and that's what the 63767 represents, a serial #. The S5 indicates about a little more than a medium opening mouthpiece which would indicate using about a 2 1/2 to 3 reed.
I'm sure some of the others on the BB can offer some more details for you. But don't get rid of anything yet, you have some OK equipment to start with.
Hank
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-12-26 21:47
The Edgeware model Boosey is one of there lower models. The other lower one is the Regent. Both Edgeware and Regent come in wood, rubber and plastic and haven't been made since the 1970's when the Boosey Group acquired Buffet. The intermediate models are called Imperial and usualy have a number 925 or 926 and again can be rubber but are more commonly wood. The pro models are the 1010's. If you cannot find a serial number list that matches the horn it may actually be a stencil made by Keilwerth/ Schreiber especially if it has no bell ring.
The most common problems with older Boosey instruments are soft tone holes especially at L3, the one without the ring, and the chimneys on the ring keys. Edgeware's and Regents are nigh on impossible to keep in adjustment at the long key E/B.
The reason that there are 2 barrells with a Boosey probably is to cope with A=440 or A=442/443 which has been a common problem for British players playing across both sides of the English Channel. I would also have somebody check to make sure the instrument is not High Pitch A=452. The other consideration is that clarinettists and cornet players often had to cope with non concert pitch piano's also.
Brilhart mouthpieces are another story still. They are more associated with saxophone and were used by players such as Charlie Parker and Johnny Hodges et. al.. There were many models including Ebolin's and Tonalin's and they suited the era. They sound very bright with little depth of tone compared to sax set ups used today and do not blend well with tenor saxes using metal mouthpieces. Brilhart clarinet mouthieces were quite commonly used but only by big band doublers along with Otto Link, Wolf Tayne etc.. They are fairly ordinary mouthpieces for concert band, too cutting, or legit playing in general. I have a couple of old ones in the cupboard.
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-12-27 20:46
I played the Emperors shortly after I started, and these were the model that took over from the Edgware. Edgwares are usually thought to be more consistent in quality than the Emperor, but what I am about to say has to be based on my knowledge of the latter.
B&H made mouthpieces, and the standard one for that class of instrument was the 593, made of plastic and stamped B&H.
The fat barrel sounds like the original one. B&H barrels were generally fatter than other makes. The fact that it is stamped and the other not seems to me to confirm that the other is an interloper.
By the way, Imperials were also pro instruments, but were just not as popular as 1010s.
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Author: Malaya
Date: 2002-12-28 00:13
Replying to Mark Pinner....
I never knew that the Edgware was a "lower" model... I'd love to have a higher model! It plays very well for me, a dumb highschool kid (ha-ha), and I have better intonation with it than the majority of the other clarinet players. (Better, in my opinion, than the 2 girls who have *new* Buffet R-13's.) It does have the metal ring on the bell, and I've been told many times it's definitely not a reproduction or a copy. (But those could be inaccurate assumptions.) I haven't had any problems with it so far, and it's nearing 50 years old. (Been in the shop about 3 times in 4 1/2 years.) No one has ever mentioned it being "out of adjustment", and I honestly wouldn't know what that meant if someone DID tell me that. (Shows you how much of an ameteur I am, or how "intelligent" repair techs are!) I've played around with the barrels a little in the last few days, and honestly found no difference. They both sound about the same, but the longer barrell doesn't need to be pulled out at all... It can be played almost perfectly in tune with being pushed in all the way.
And a reply to Hank, the mouthpiece does work best with about a 2 1/2 reed... It jumped to the upper register (without depressing the register key) when I tried my usual 3 1/2. I just need a better reed, and I think it'll sound really sensational. (All I had was a 2 1/2 Rico. YUCK!)
Anyways, thanks to everyone for their help in my quest for information. The more I learn about my precious "baby", the more I enjoy it. It's nice to find people that actually know what a Boosey and Hawkes is. (My band director looked at me like I was speaking Spanish. LOL) I'm sure I'll have more questions to ask another time... Thanks again!
*~*Malaya*~*
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-12-28 01:09
Hi,
I'd two more things to get a better fix on the barrels. Get an electronic tuner and a friend. With each barrel, play an F scale from the bottom of the instrument to above the staff and have the friend watch the tuner and mark each note as to how sharp or flat each note is and write down that number. Do the same with the other barrel. See what notes are in tune and which barrel provides the best results over the entire range of the instrument. Use that barrel as it appears there is little sonic difference but one will probably have a greater effect on the intonation of certain notes. Make sure the clarinet is warm to room temperature before starting.
When you settle on a barrel, remember the way to tune the clarinet is the open G (pull barrel if too sharp - if flat, go to the shorter barrel), then tune the G an octave higher (if that is sharp pull the middle tenon a little and if flat, push the barrel in a little) and finally tune the third space C and if any adjustments are necessary, you'll have to work a compromise with the barrel, middle section, or even the bell).
Most HS Band director (and I was one for 16 years) that are not clarinet players don't understand that the clarinet should be tuned this way and not just for a Concert Bb. Concert is not the best note IMHO.
The other thing is get some better reeds than the generic Ricos. Look through the BB and you'll find lots of info on reed selection.
Hank
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