 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Dan
Date: 2002-12-22 00:33
About a week ago, I spoke with Alan Bland of the Prestini Co in Nogales, AZ, concerning pad making material. During the course of our conversation, he told me that his firm, after several years of evaluations, was beginning to sell an ABS plastic student model clarinet and wanted to know if I would be willing to give him an evaluation. I agreed and what follows is my analysis of the new Prestini student clarinet model 3630:
1)Material: ABS plastic…brushed to give wood like finish.
2)Shipment packaging: I was surprised and impressed at the outside bubble wrapped cardboard box. I sense that this is their standard and provides good protection to the instrument. On the instrument, I noticed 4 cork inserts to protect key movement during shipment. Very well thought out…
3)Box: thinner cardboard box similar to the Hanson shipment but this box arrived in near perfect condition.
4)Case: Black plastic with granular coating. 2 front clasps (similar to Yamaha). Very sturdy. The inside material was quite extraordinary…a longer, smoother, silkier material that felt like a short hair “fur coat”…very impressive.
5)Clarinet Esthetics: Very high quality look to the instrument. Excellent keywork plating. Impressive looking…when my step-daughter saw it, she said: “Oh, Wow!!!”… Moving along, the pads appear to be double skin bladder with none of the hole impressions at the edges of the cups. The trill keys are in-line. One thing that troubled me was that the rings on the upper and lower sections were flush or very close to being fully flush with the key posts when closed. The rings are nicely nickel plated and are thinner than the YCL-250 and the Hanson HE-3. IMO, the YCL-250 had the best structurally sound ring construction. However, the Prestini keywork was still excellent with no noticeable excess play between key posts.
Upon a 2nd inspection of the 3 clarinets, the hole posts of the YCL-250 were an integral part of the clarinet body. With the Prestini and the Hanson HE-3, the hole posts had the appearance of being separate plastic posts that were inserted, then glued into holes drilled into the clarinet body. IMO, this construction technique gives the impression of a “cheaper” esthetic value. (By the way, the Prestini retails for around $100.00 less than the YCL-250.) Continuing the comparison, the YCL-250 simply looked more professionally built. Another comparison of constructional differences: the trill key spring grouting strips in the Prestini and the HE-3 were erratic as if done by hand and didn’t center directly under the springs. The YCL-250 spring retaining groves were exceptionally smooth as if cut out by a computer guided cutting tool…the cut-outs were perfectly straight and were directly centered under the springs. IMO, the YCL-250 construction design was very well thought out and milled to perfection.
6)Assembly: Problems:
a)The bell would not go onto the lower section (a repeat of the Hanson problem.) No matter how hard I tried, after thoroughly greasing the cork, I couldn’t go beyond ¼ of the cork. I had to remove the cork grease and carefully sand down the cork till I could get it on.
b)The upper and lower sections were a very tight fit, but, I managed to get them together. (The lower section was actually snug against the upper tenon section before the cork!!)
c)The barrel was so tight, I almost sanded the cork down. Here, again, the barrel was quite snug against the outer edge of the tenon even before getting to the cork!! After a herculian effort, I got it on. (I later sanded it down before a 2nd playing test.)
d)Upon disassembly, I noticed that the rings on the bell and on the lower section were both loose and in need of being recompressed.
7)Pressure test: Both upper and lower sections took approx 1 second to descend from 3 to 1 oz. per sq. in. of pressure. IMO, very poor pad sealing.
8)Play test:
a)Response: Poor. Found both normally open pads on upper section not seating properly and required extra pressure to make the instrument produce a full sound.
b)Intonation: I noticed from the moment I saw the barrel, that it looked very short. I measured it and my gauge read 62mm. To make a long story very short, I noticed that the intonation varied according to what mpc I was using and even which type of reed I was playing. Yes, there were some problems. The trill “B”, left hand A and Bb were all high primarily because the pad height was only 0.5mm above the cup. Had the correct pad size been installed, I sense there would have been no intonation problems with these keys. However, I did notice that E5 and F5 were both 10 points low. I looked at the register key and noticed that the pad was practically flush with the cup. Perhaps the opening here was a bit too large (?).
c)Tone: I noticed the tone varied greatly from hard to soft & mellow depending upon which reed I was playing. The Legere produced a rather hard tone while the LaVoz produced a very nice, warm, smooth sounding tone (to my ears).
I went back and rechecked the tonal quality and intonation of the YCL-250 using the LaVoz reed. The tone appeared to be darker and more focused than either of the other 2 instruments. The intonation was practically “dead on” all the way up to C6 (with the previously noted exception of the wide open trill “B” key.) With the LaVoz reed, the YCL-250 was quite flat in the lower altissimo range while the Prestini was “dead on” all the way up to F6 (the highest note my soft reed could play).
9) Conclusion: All in all, after appropriate “tweaking", I believe the intonation of the Prestini and the YCL-250 would be about the same…both excellent. Tone wise…the Prestini was more of a “traditional”, spread open sound while the YCL-250 seemed more focused and a bit darker.
10) Recommendation: No matter what you buy, as has been noted by others on this BB, expect to pay out more $$$ to have your new instrument “tweaked” for maximum performance. The YCL-250 and the Pristini both appear to be good student instruments.
Doing these 3 analyses of the YCL-250, the Hanson HE-3 and the Pristini clarinets has been quite an education for me. I hope this one has been informative and useful for you.
Happy Holidays!!!
Dan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-12-22 21:40
We have been getting Prestini clarinets and flutes here in Australia for a while. All the examples I have seen have been pre-serviced so some of the problems mentioned have been ironed out but not the leaking. They retail here for around AUD$595 and are at the lower end of the market, just slightly above the Chinese rubbish that has proliferated the market and slightly below the Jupiter. The Blessing models at around AUD$650 are a lot better in all respects and the extra money spent is saved in service costs in a very short time. To put the prices in perspective the Yamaha C100 and Armstrong 4001 both sell for around AUD$995 and the Vito 7212 for AUD$1095. The YCL250 has not made it here yet but we do have a number of the new entry level Alto saxes, YAS257?, which are fairly chronic. As with any student instrument it is a case of caveat emptor (buyer beware) especially if you are trying to buy on the cheap. As a repairer I refuse to touch most Chinese instruments and likewise older Blessing and probably in the future Prestini as any repair work is near on impossible to warranty. I cop a fair bit of abuse for this policy but it is followed by many colleagues. The fault is with the importer and retailer for supplying unsustainably cheap horns. Equal fault is with the buyer. How can something with as much fine mechanical detail be produced at such a low price? If only people asked this question of themselves before buying and didn't rely on the advice of a retailer whose only aim is to make money and therefore not a "disinterested" party.
I appreciate your analysis which is well written. It is a pity that Prestini did not tell you where these instruments were actually made but my suspicion is China or at the very best Mexico. As a matter of interest I use a bucket load of Prestini pads and sheet cork which are excellent.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-22 23:16
Mark Pinner wrote:
> How can something with as much fine
> mechanical detail be produced at such a low price?
Many things are; clarinets are not. For whatever reason.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan
Date: 2002-12-23 01:19
To Mark Pinner: Thanks for your response. Everyone benefits when getting advice from repairpersons with many years of experience. Your assumption about origination was pretty close. The Prestini is manufactured in Taiwan. I thought it best to leave it out. Perhaps I was wrong. I thought it might "taint" the analysis. IMO, prospective buyers of clarinets DESPERATELY need to hear from experienced repairpersons, such as yourself, jbutler, Gordon (NZ), and others for purchase advice. IMO, an analysis simply does not equate with knowledge gleaned from many years of repair experience. It saddens me that, IMO, many parents simply don't know where to go to obtain accurate information about the quality of instruments. Thanks again.
To Mark C: IMO, it appears that all 3 clarinets, the YCL-250, the Hanson HE-3, and the Prestini all failed due to poor quality control. IMO, neither of them were play tested before leaving the factory. If I couldn't get the bell on with the Hanson or the Prestini, how could they have been play tested?
I really want to believe that there is a solution here....but, if price remains the KING of the selection process by prosepective buying parents, then, IMO, shoddy work will continue--the kids will be frustrated--the parents may begin to think that clarinets, in general, are lousy instruments--and worst of all, perhaps many wonderful clarinetists will never come to be---simply because of a wrong buying decision.
I would like to see a tab on the main page titled "How to buy a good clarinet" or something similar so that, authored by a thoroughly experienced repairperson--or perhaps even several permanent articels (a thread?) so that at the click of a button, a prospective buyer can become fairly well informed. I see this question on the BB several times. I believe it would be a real "plus" to this website.
Thank you both for your inputs.
Dan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-23 02:06
Dan wrote:
> I would like to see a tab on the main page titled "How to
> buy a good clarinet" or something similar so that, authored by
> a thoroughly experienced repairperson--or perhaps even several
> permanent articels (a thread?) so that at the click of a
> button, a prospective buyer can become fairly well informed.
There is already a section for buying a student clarinet; perhaps you haven't read it? It recommends tried and true student clarinets; none of the clarinets you've looked at (besides the Yamaha) are listed there.
It is too complex an issue to have parents do a technical evaluation of a student clarinet; rather, the recommendation of specific models is much more succinct and valuable.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan
Date: 2002-12-23 02:47
Mark C: No, I didn't know that such an article already existed. If you are referring to the "What to buy" article in the young people's section, I must admit that it took quite a while for me to find it.
Thanks for informing me.
Dan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-12-23 03:15
You have now posted three evaluations of new student model clarinets. Of the three all needed to be "tweaked". In my day (not long ago) we used to call that "repairing" not "tweaking". So from your description I would say all three needed to be returned as unplayable.
In my opinion it is not acceptable to assume you will have to fix an unplayable new clarinet upon delivery.
You pay for a working clarinet, not a clarinet kit.
I think the manufacturers and retailer should be advertising these things as <B>student clarinet kits</B>!
Finding junk like this being sold as musical instruments will only increase in frequency if folks contine to accept it. A clarinet builder must figure the horns are ok because they are not coming back. If the junk stops selling or keeps coming back then the stores and builders will realize they should improve their quality control! In other words, if accept this type of merchandise, we all will get more of it in the future.
IMHO, Terry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-23 03:29
Terry Horlick wrote:
> In other words, if accept this
> type of merchandise, we all will get more of it in the future.
One of the many reasons to currently stick with the "big four". I'm always hoping a new manufacturer will come out with a line of inexpensive yet quality student clarinets, but it hasn't happened yet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-23 03:30
Dan wrote:
>
> Mark C: No, I didn't know that such an article already
> existed. If you are referring to the "What to buy" article in
> the young people's section, I must admit that it took quite a
> while for me to find it.
It's under "Equipment", too! (the most obvious place). A secondary link is in the Young People's Pages.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan
Date: 2002-12-23 04:49
Mark C: Was the phrase "(the most obvious place)" really necessary? I think it could have been left out and your message would have come across with total clarity. I feel as if I've been just "put down" and I don't appreciate it.
I did see the EQUIPMENT tab, but when I read the small lettered words under it, I sensed (wrongly) that what I was looking for wasn't there. So...I made a mistake. I still don't believe I deserved the response I received.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-12-23 09:14
I had a look at a YCL250 after replying to the post. The local price is AUD$1095 taking it to the range of the Vito. Of course all the prices I quoted above are recommended retail and are seldom charged owing to discounting. I will have to do a bit of comparison with the old C100 and I'm sure I will see a few shortly.
In response to Mark Charette's comment:-
Mark Pinner wrote:
> How can something with as much fine
> mechanical detail be produced at such a low price?
Many things are; clarinets are not. For whatever reason.
The point I am making is that if you are going to spend money on something that has so much mechanical detail common sense should make you think. One obvious point is why one clarinet costs $300 dollars and another $3000 or whatever. Admittedly the $3000 dollar instrument is possibly overpriced but surely you would be thinking that the $300 instrument would have to be utter crap.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-23 15:08
Dan wrote:
>
> Mark C: Was the phrase "(the most obvious place)" really
> necessary? I think it could have been left out and your message
> would have come across with total clarity. I feel as if I've
> been just "put down" and I don't appreciate it.
Wasn't meant as a put-down. I thought I had put the information in the most obvious place, literally. I'm in the middle of redesigning everything for the site (it's a mish-mash of partially and badly-designed pages) and know things get buried, but that one I didn't think was too badly out of place.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Marge
Date: 2002-12-23 18:45
I too sometimes have had trouble finding things on the site--or have sort of accidentally come upon something interesting and informative, not realizing it was there because of not realizing how to get to it. As I think I've said before (in a direct e-mail to you, Mark C.), a site map would be great. However, I realize that this would be extra work for you, and you already invest a great deal of time, effort, and thought in this website. As I vaguely recall, replying to my e-mail, you gave some reason as to why there isn't a site map, but I don't recall the reason. Perhaps it was along the lines of your having tried one earlier and it didn't serve well, or whatever. But I still think a site map/index accessible from the entry page would be very helpful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-23 20:05
Marge wrote:
>
> But I still think a site map/index accessible from
> the entry page would be very helpful.
The site is being re-written from top to bottom. However, there is a "search box" on the main page that indexes everything.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
