 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2002-12-11 17:17
The other day, I heard a recording of the Mozart that was, to say the least, unlike any I have ever heard before.
As I had an appointment, I wasn't able to hear it through to the end, but I was struck by all the little noodlings that the performer added-mostly turns.
Overall the person sounded like a great player, but I found all the "innovation" rather distracting.
Is this kind of thing normally done with this piece?
Brian Peterson
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2002-12-11 18:49
I heard something similar on Classic FM (in UK) recently and it turned out to be Sabine Meyer ! I was struck by the feeling "someone's a smarty pants" Initially, I didn't think it suited the Mozart but this approach was new to me.) I'm not sure if this sort of embellishment was done in Mozart's time (but this may be an attempt to "authenticate" the work. It certainly was in earlier music. I'm exploring early music, eg Dowland - transcribimg it for alto or soprano sax or bass clarinet and occasionally perform this in churches. For this I've been getting some early music coaching for the sort of embellishment that the music would have carried. It's very rewarding.
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Author: liquorice
Date: 2002-12-11 18:53
It was common practise in the time of Mozart for the performer to improvise embellishments, and even vary the melodic line whne a musical passage is repeated. It is a matter of musical taste and historical knowledge as to what and how much one should add to what is already written. Nobody really knows what Anton Stadler would have played in 1791.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-12-11 19:14
Back when this was first written, there could not have been many showings for the clarinet as a solo instrument. After the umpteenth iteration of this you can be sure Stadler took liberty with the score.
Today, with hundreds of orchestrations and Concerti featuring the clarinet the K622, Weber and Brahms are mostly what gets public viewing - small wonder the performers are again ornamenting the passages; probably out of boredom.
Most performers wish to express themselves musically; and we're not talking about break dancing at Sunday morning service, I say more power to them.
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-12-12 01:13
I recall in high school getting "cute" with the Mozart. I performed the 3rd mvt. one Sunday in Church and it was recorded. I tossed in a few self-inspired on-the-spot curls and embellishemnts here and there. When I played back the solo for my band director (a clarinet player) he turned red as a beat and I proceeded in getting my head handed to me on a platter. Upon reflection and 30 years later, I now see how influential my teachers/mentors were in shaping and influencin my purest delusions of grandeur. v/r KEN
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Author: liquorice
Date: 2002-12-12 08:10
Mark, thanks for the link to Dan Leeson's article. However, I was quite disappointed by it. While I wholeheartedly agree with his viewpoint, I was hoping that the article would have more information on the details of improvisation in Moazrt performance. Instead there was a lot of rambling about Cassandra! At least he refers to one of his other articles, and the excellent article by Robert Levin.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-12-12 12:33
Brian...Try and read the article in <i>The Clarint</i> magazine, entitled "Improvisation in the Mozart Concerto".
Volume 16 Number 1 (November/December 1988)
By the way, the same issue has Dennis Nygren's great interview with Robert Marcellus. Absolute must reading!! ...GBK
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2002-12-12 15:55
Glenn,
Is the Nygren article the one that is available on that Australian woodwind site?
BP
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2002-12-12 16:05
I gotta quit putting it off, get off my butt write out my check and join ICA so that I can read this stuff.
BP
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2002-12-12 16:19
Brian said: ". . . get off my butt write out my check . . ."
That reminds me of the story David Steinberg (I think) tells about being on the New York subway. He happened to sit down on a newspaper someone had left on the seat. A few minutes later another passenger came up to him and asked, "Pardon me, are you reading that paper?" Steinberg said, "Yes," got up, turned to another page, and sat down again.
Brian, you probably don't have many people asking to borrow your pen. ;+))
Todd W.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-12-13 04:53
Twenty-first century performances of K622 in contemporary playing style reinforce the concept that it is truly a magnificent work, one which transcends changes in musical preference across the centuries.
Furthermore, I do believe that modern "Basset Clarinets" are manufactured to A440 or 442, quite distant from the pitch prevailing during Mozart's lifetime (which was considerably lower). Egad, isn't this a serious compromise of old Wolfy's intentions? Shouldn't we transpose the whole thing down a step or two to be prototypical?
Yes, performers then used self-inflicted ornamentation much more so than today. "Spontaneous improvisation" appears to have been the rule in late 18th-century music rather than the exception. And such improvisations should definitely be the personal purview of each performer: nothing that could be written down, cast in concrete for all to play and sound alike.
Mercifully for the rest of the world, I scratched all plans to play the K622 quite some time ago. With my personal predilection for jazz-style improv, were I to play with my own version of "spontaneous improvisation" I would likely toss in a few hot licks here and there to the horror of most listeners.
As GBK (a far more compleat music historian than I) occasionally reminds me, "Sweet Sue" is in F and "Little Brown Jug" in G, so it would no doubt be inappropriate to include a snippet or two of either of these. But surely I'd come up with something. "How High the Moon," maybe. But spontaneously, of course.
Regards,
John
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-12-13 14:26
Dear Freinds:
A few observations that as a player I have made over the years on the Mozart.
there is no authentic edition of the work ...we do know however Mozart wrote it...
ornamentation overdone can be tacky and a trifle annoying....
ornamentation in the slow movement I generally avoid. what Mozart wrote or what we think is his final version is quite beautiful
Bernard Walton added things in unsual places and yet i like his version far better than some of the recent overplaying
Harold Wright and marcellus used a direct approach and kept the noodling down so to speak
As to Stadler and whatr he did it could certainly be said it was on a bassett clarinet....
I do like the normal A version as well and my ears seemed to always prefer this!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-12-13 15:30
d dow wrote, re the K622: "we do know however Mozart wrote it..."
You are speaking for yourself and many others, David, but there are a few who do not accept this with certainty. If anyone cares to search for it, there's an old post of mine in which the concept is advanced that Mozart outlined/sketched the piece, and Stadler himself "wrote" it. While it may not be accurate, I do *not* believe this to be an implausible scenario. You know the "Trumpet Voluntary"? Purcell was believed to be the author for hundreds of years, but no longer. When no autograph of a work exists, and even occasionally when one is known, there may be doubts. The *Magnificat" by Pergolesi (maybe) is an example. We learn more about the past all the time. But whether Mozart wrote the whole thing or not, it was certainly based on his own concept.
"As to Stadler and whatr he did it could certainly be said it was on a bassett clarinet.... "
At least it was an extended range instrument, something like those things we now call "Basset Clarinets." We've been calling them that only for the last fifty years or so.
David, I enjoy your frank comments regarding your preferences. As has been discussed here before, we all have different tastes. Your opinions offer further validation of that.
Regards,
John
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-12-16 20:49
I have heard Stadler's music and find it EXTREMELY unlikely that he wrote K. 622. His compositions are far more primitive than Mozart's in their construction and design.
The perfection of the orchestral writing and the construction of the Rondo are pure Mozart, as far as I am concerned.
I suppose it is possible Stadler altered parts of the solo book to the concerto, but since we have nothing in either Mozart's (or Stadler's) hand other than the early G major sketch, there is no way to know.
One would pretty much have to conclude that Stadler wrote K581 as well to give this theory any credence. And to me, that seems even more unlikely than Stadler having written the concerto.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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