 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-07 11:12
Well I got my clarinet this week. The mouth piece is older and wooden. Seemed really clean, but I soaked it a little bit in warm soapy water (maybe 5 to 10 min. so I wouldn't warp it or anything). The stain or paint of whatever started coming right off as soon as it was put into water! Immediate brown water. So we're waiting for payday (24th) for a new mouthpiece, pads and springs. In the meantime I'll be calling around to the local music store or stores...there might be 2 in town and find out how much these items will cost. I plan on doing the work myself.
So how difficult is it to replace springs?
Anything special I need to know?
It's only one spring that's not working right now, but the others are looking rusty. So they'll need replacing eventually too. Maybe next months payday if they're too expensive. Hopefully this payday though. It looks like I need to take it apart to do this so I'd rather only take it apart once if I need to take it apart.
How about cleaning metal clarinets? There is some green on the bell of the clarinet that I'd like to clean off before it turns into rust....would tarnx be best?
Then two of the keys are rubbing togetter and will stick a key open...I don't remember ever using those 2 keys before, but if there's a way to fix them....
I'm not familiar with cork pads, but the one pad that is in the clarinet appears to be cork. Is this a better pad or are the one's I'm used to all right? I'm guessing cork might be better seeing that's what's in there.
How about replacing cork between joints? This is an old metal carinet and it looks like the cork will need to be really thin. It's one piece kinda, but there is a piece that goes between the mouthpiece and clarinet. Looks like it lost it's cork so someone just put a piece of masking tape there. They did the same with the mouthpiece! Yikes! There budget for this must have been alot worse then mine!
How about cases? Are there any cases made now a days that would fit an old one piece metal clarinet?
Thanks for the help. Sorry for all the questions. It's been a long time since I've played the clarinet. So some stuff I remember, and other stuff I haven't done before, so I want to make sure I do this right!
Have a Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2002-12-07 13:53
Odds are that if you try to do this work yourself you will not have a playable clarinet. If the horn is worth while I would take it to a tech and have it fixed properly. You may save money in the long run.
bob
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Author: William
Date: 2002-12-07 14:55
I also highly recommend that you take your clarinet to a qualified repair person and get the job done right. I have been playing clarinets for 40 yrs and routinely dismantle the keywork completely to clean inside tone holes and lubricate the long rods. And I cna put it back together so that it still works--most of the time. But for the kinds of repairs you are describing--corks, springs, pads and cleaning--believe me, you will be much happier with the servicies of a knowledgable repair tech who has all the right tools, compatable replacement parts on hand, and understands the correct adjustments of pad height, spring tension and key aliegnments necessary to make your instrument play. Your instrument probably needs a "complete overhaul" which may seem a bit expensive to you. But considering the acquistion of correct repair parts (and extras for when you make mistakes) and all of the time you will invest in just learning "how to do it" in the first place (and then repeated efforts to "get it right"), the repair shoppe bill may seem more reasonable. Professional repair is your only way to go.
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-07 23:37
Around how much would it cost for a professional? Would it be cheaper/or more worth while to go to e-bay and buy and recondition clarinet with a one year warrenty for about $50 I think I saw it at once?
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-12-08 01:26
Most people who use wooden mouthpieces value them highly. They are also quite expensive to buy, so think twice before disposing of it, unless you want to throw it in my direction. It may of course be damaged and need resurfacing, but don't worry about the staining, it has no effect on the sound your mouthpiece makes. See how it plays, after you have had the clarinet serviced.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-12-08 03:18
Deborah -
Doing-it-yourself is a fine way to go and I certainly would not discourage anyone from going that route. Many of us who meet here do our own maintenance. Some also do extensive repairs on an 'amateur' basis. For the 'average' first-timer, and one who wants a playable instrument pretty soon, I would agree with the above posters who don't recommend it. Not that you shouldn't consider it later on.
The fifty-dollar overhaul at eBay, especially this time of year, looks pretty good doesn't it? With a shaky economy looming over us and all that, it may look even better. Considering that, I'd also ponder the following points... then ask myself again if that's what I really want to do. I'm not saying the eBay person isn't a good deal. I surely and simply don't know. I don't know the person and I don't personally know any techs in the mail order business.
It might be a wonderful deal... however, while we're considering things, please consider the following (you're probably way ahead of me, but please indulge just a few moments):
Is there a repair tech in your area? If so (and just for your own information at this point), why not go get an estimate? Take your instrument in and ask for a quote for a complete overhaul, a repad and cork (as needed), and a play condition only. Techs are happy to examine, discuss and explain what and why they recommend certain things, and their prices, and let you decide what you want to do.
My reasons for recommending that you then ask the tech to do your first-time repairs are obvious.
1. It'll be done in record breaking time. To a skilled tech, it's a little like coloring Easter eggs. They just do it right every time:)
2. When you pick up your instrument you can play-test it and have any adjustments made, right there, before you take it home. Each player has her/his own touch and feel for their instrument.
3. Technicians like please their customers.
4. You can take it back for while-you-wait follow up adjustments, no charge, no shipping costs (did I mention no long wait?).
5. It's pretty difficult to do all this by 'remote control'.
_______________
Two cents worth of musing on pros and cons of doing your own work:
Metal clarinets, a favorite among several folks who frequently visit Sneezy's, and seeing that that's what you are dealing with now, are not difficult to clean. If you're doing a complete overhaul, and have removed all steel parts in preparation, it's real easy. Give it a bath in warm water with a dash of dish detergent and water softener, then dry thoroughly and lightly machine buff with yellow compound. Same thing for keys with pads removed. Otherwise, just to shine it up while assembled, use a two-step polishing cloth kit available at most music stores.
Changing springs is not difficult with the right replacements, tools and know-how. If you don't have these, let your tech do it for you. If you're nice about it, she or he may let you watch
Repadding/re-corking is something that needs hands on instruction - unless you don't mind hour after hour of trial and error frustration. No kidding, you really need someone to walk you through the process a few times to get the right feel for it. Once you get it you'll have it for life.
Investing in tools, equipment, materials, supplies and all that is fine if you have several horns you wish to maintain or plan on doing it for a hobby, taking care of the needs of a school band clarinet section for instance. If not, I heartily add my recommendation that you take your instrument to a local shop.
Whichever way you decide to deal with your instrument, Deborah, I wish you many, many years musical pleasure.
Happy Tootin' :]
- ron b -
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2002-12-08 23:48
Ron....you are a long winded son of a gun......
Deborah....I think you're good at leg pulling.....
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-09 01:06
Pulling who's leg about what? Not playing for 15 years and wanting to play again and keep the cost down? Of wanting to repair something where I have no idea what I'm doing? Not being to smart and buying a clarinet off of e-bay without seeing it!
Well I really wasn't too smart buying from e-bay I'm afraid! I've learned a valuable lesson.
I also really want to get back to playing the clarinet again. I've wanted to for years and it's always been we can't afford it. Now we still can't really afford it, but because playing it's always relaxed me even if I don't play well....well it's either get rid of the stress or the Dr thinks I'm a prime candidate for a stroke or heart attack at this point.
As far as wanting to repair it I love to tinker with stuff. However I don't want to risk making it so it's not repairable either. I'm usually really good at figuring stuff out....but then usually I'm figuring out inexpensive stuff cheaper to replace if I mess up, but it's not working anyways if I'm tinkering with it. After my first experience with e-bay I'm not sure about going back there for anything. Warrenty...good feedback or any of that included!
Well I am serious about this. No hard feelings though.
Hope you have a Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-12-09 05:05
Yup, John G. -- long winded. That's me all right:] Exceeded only by my self confidence. That's sometimes the way it goes when I feel a post has merit and I can maybe offer something worthwhile. Is Deborah joshing? Only The Shadow knows
______________________________________________
Deborah -- Don't worry, you did okay. I feel that you and your clarinet are prime candidates for a restoration project. No better place to start than right where you are. I've been where you are more than a few times. So, if you wish to contact me off-line just click my (blue) name at the top of my response and e-mail me. You like to tinker and I love to explain. Perfect qualifications. I can walk you through this.
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-09 12:31
Thanks!:) I'll probably be contacting you once I get the tools I need. Unfortunately it doesn't look like we can get them until about the 24th though:( But I'm working on it.
Looking forward to restoring the clarinet.
Hope you have a Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-12-09 14:56
I wouldn't buy any tools I didn't need for the job at hand. On a limited budget you can always add tools and equipment later as your skill increases. At least, that's been my experience.
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-10 04:11
Thanks! I think you're right. Went to our local music store today. They want $109 just for pads so I can put them in. That is it nothing else! Is this about right or is it way off? Seemed high to me, but it's been so long what do I know about prices any more.
I also asked how much it would cost if they did it. They don't do it. They send it out....they didn't say where. Said if nothing else went wrong with it it would be around $209...then when my husband walked in they said well maybe around $159.
I also asked about how much it would cost to buy a used student clarinet. I about croaked with the answer! They told me $1,200.
Does any of this sound right? I'm not wanting top of the line expensive or anything like that I'd just something playable. I remember when my clarinet teacher sold me pads for about $10 and replaced them for me and let me watch. Sure is different now!
By the way...I figured out why someone thought I was joking...The guy at the music store laughed. I guess the mouthpiece is worth more then the clarinet. I really didn't feel comfortable there...maybe it's just I think they're the only store in town that I know of.
Started cutting up an cereal box today into little circles. Gluing the circles together and trying to plug up the leaking air. I'm not putting any glue on the clarinet its self. Seems to have gotten the non working spring working....I don't think I touched it, but maybe I did. I can also get a couple of notes out of it now. Sometimes E or F, but for sure G and B. This is going to take alot of time. Cutting out little rounds of cardboard takes forever. It will be worth it if I can get the clarinet playable though and by not gluing them in what ever I do is reversable if I can find affordable pads.
Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it!
Hope you have a really Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-10 11:53
Deborah wrote:
>
> Thanks! I think you're right. Went to our local music
> store today. They want $109 just for pads so I can put them in.
> That is it nothing else! Is this about right or is it way off?
Way, way, way off. Unless they're already assuming that you're going to take it back and have them do the labor ($109 is about right for pads & labor, not just pads).
> I also asked about how much it would cost to buy a used student
> clarinet. I about croaked with the answer! They told me $1,200.
Run away from that store. Even if it's the only one in town! A used student instrument is <b>significantly</b> less - a good <b>new</b> student instrument will set you back less than $400.
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-10 13:22
Thank-you for your response. I really felt like I was being taken in there, but without knowing prices to well now didn't know for sure. And the price they told me if they did the work of replacing the pads and not just selling me the pads is $209. So I'll take your advice and stay clear!
In the meantime I need to find a place that sells clarinet pads. Maybe there is another small town around here with a music store. Thought about looking for them on-line, but I'm not to sure about that. This clarinet is the first and only thing I've bought on-line and it's not in as good of shape as I was told. Maybe because it was e-bay.
I know....my husbands mom lives in Atlanta....maybe she can do some checking there for me.
Thanks again!
Hope you have a Really Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-12-10 17:06
Mark is absolutely correct, Deborah. Distance yourself from that store - don't walk, RUN! And don't go back. If you're serious about doing this yourself, you need to start from square one; put your wallet away. Then proceed one step at a time. Buy what you need from a supply house, not a local music store. As you've already found out, at least the one you went to will try to gouge you. Sad to say, that's not uncommon. If your husband hadn't walked in they might have *raised* their price :| They send the repairs out to... Unknown?. RED FLAG!!! :
Student clarinets in my neighborhood, good ones too, sell for way less than $300 (U.S.). Pads, last time I checked, sell from between fifty cents and ninty cents apiece (plus shipping), depending on what kind. Pad sets (Not recommended) are in the twenty dollar or so range, not one hundred.... So, get all the information you can before you start spending your money. Lots of folks here will be happy to advise you along the way on how to save money as you proceed. Don't be taken in.
You mentioned the need for stress relief. Most of us can identify with that. I've found that repairing/maintaining instruments is as relaxing and rewarding as playin' 'em
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-12-10 18:45
Hi Deborah,
As I've been following this thread, two things strike me as relevant in your situation: (1) money is tight, and (2) you want an instrument that you can play for enjoyment in the not-too-distant future. With that in mind, here are some random thoughts about the economics of your situation that have occurred to me while following this thread.
1. I agree with Mark that your local music store is, to be generous to them, unreasonable. A set of good bladder pads phone-order from Ferree's Tools is under $10. Around here (St. Louis) $109 would pay for a new set of pads installed. For under $200 you should be able to get the pads (installed professionally), as well as a reasonable number of small repairs necessary to put your clarinet in playing condition. (But I will have more to say about this shortly.) A brand new Buffet E11, a well-regarded wooden student horn (that some consider closer to an intermediate) can be had from the mail-order stores for around $575, a brand new Buffet B12 plastic student instrument can be had for around $350. Used, these instruments will sell locally for around 50% - 60% of the new prices I've just quoted. Primarily because of overhead, most local stores have to charge more than the mail order places but honest ones don't gouge. Either the store was quoting you the price of a fairly high-end clarinet (maybe it's all they have available) or else they are trying to exploit your lack of knowledge. In either case, they are not responding to your needs so, IMHO, you should go elsewhere.
2. To be blunt, what you have is a run-of-the-mill metal clarinet, probably at least 50 years old. In pre-lamp condition, such clarinets are worth about $25 so you really didn't get "taken" in the eBay auction. The truth is that the price of 2 CD's or 4 movie tickets just doesn't buy much clarinet. IMHO, your mistake wasn't in buying on eBay, your mistake was not doing more research into what you should buy before you made your purchase -- resulting in your purchase of the Velvetone. Based on your earlier messages, I think you should be looking for a <10 year-old, relatively lightly used (plastic) student-model clarinet from one of the "Big 4" clarinet makers. Such instruments are fairly common on eBay and, while prices, particularly for Buffets, are currently on the high side (from the start of school through Christmas is not the best time of year to buy), with patience and care, you should be able to obtain one in pretty good condition for under $100. (A quick check of recent auctions showed several student Yamahas had sold for under $80. Buffet B12's, on the other hand were ranging from $200 - $350. I didn't check Leblanc (Vito) or Selmer (CL300 or 1401)). FWIW, awhile back, I bought a used B12 on e-Bay to use as a "bad-weather" horn. I expected to have to repad it but, when I got it, I found it was in such good playing condition that I took it to an orchestra rehearsal that night. Neither the conductor nor any of the other clarinetists noticed that I wasn't playing my regular horn. (Of course, it could just be that I'm hopeless regardless of what I play. ;^) ) My cost? About $85, including shipping -- plus the time it took me to "stalk" B12's for a month or so.
3. In its current condition, the market value of your clarinet is around $25. It might cost $150 - $200 to have it put in playing condition by a professional , if you can find a professional willing to work on it. (Many would refuse because they recognize that it will not be worth the cost of the repairs.) If you go that route, you will likely wind up with a clarinet that's worth somewhere between $40 - $80. That wouldn't necessarily be a problem if the instrument met your playing needs. Unfortunately, it probably won't. The metal clarinet fans on this list notwithstanding (and only a couple of them play metal exclusively), there was a reason (oh, those many years ago) when some of us were learning on metal clarinets, that our teachers had us dump them as soon as we showed any aptitude. Aside from a few models (and, I'm afraid Velvetone isn't one of them), they just don't have much upside potential. Conclusion: It does not make sense to me to have the instrument professionally repaired.
4. It's one thing to take an old metal clarinet (or, in the case of my first effort, an old saxophone) apart, clean it up shine up the metal, and put it back together. Actually making the thing playable is another story. Seating conventional pads properly can be quite challenging -- aggrevated by a one-piece construction that makes finding leaks even more difficult. Considering the age of your instrument, I suspect sight unseen that you will also encounter the following problems: (1) pivot screws (and perhaps even rods) that are frozen (rusted) in place making it very difficult to remove the keys, (2) one or more bent keys (making pads harder to seat) and (3) missing key corks (will you recognize if one is missing?). Being able to perform minor repairs (e.g., replacement of a pad that has worn out or fallen out, replacement of key and tenon corks and, perhaps, replacement of a broken spring) on one's clarinet is, IMHO, a very useful skill. (Sitting in a music store for 2 1/2 hours waiting for a tenon cork replacement convinced me of this.) Usually, I fall into the camp on this board who recommend "do-it-yourself" maintenance and minor repairs. In your case, however, I'm not so sure. It sounds to me like you want a clarinet for playing, not for a nostalgic repair project. If that's true, I think you might be better off treating your Velvetone as a "sunk cost" (which it is) and consider that, from this point forward, the least-cost, least-aggrevation approach to a clarinet that plays acceptably may not be fixing up your metal instrument but rather may be finding another clarinet -- this time armed with a better idea of what you are looking for. As far as the Velvetone is concerned, my recommendation is that you either resell it and cut your losses or keep it as a repair project but don't expect much of the results.
If you do decide to fix up the Velvetone, however, I have one recommendation. Instead of buying conventional pads for around $10, I suggest you try to find a Valentino clarinet pad set. It gives you a complete set of Valentino synthetic pads, some useful (and some useless) tools and instructions. This will cost around $20 but will be MUCH easier to work with and should give good results. You may have to call around the mail-order places to find these. I see them in an old catalog from International Musical Suppliers but can't find them in my Muncie Winds or Woodwind and Brasswind catalogs. I hope Rico's acquisition of Valentino's business hasn't resulted in their disappearance. (On the other hand, if you buy pads from Ferree's, buy bladder pads and avoid the Norbeck synthetic pads. They are nothing like the Valentino's and, IMHO, will give you nothing but headaches. In my experience, they are hard to seat and prone to stick.)
5. If you decide to look for another clarinet, expect to pay at least $80 - $100 for something that will be decent and pretty close to playable out of the box. If you can't afford that much right now, I would suggest you start saving and don't buy anything until you can afford at least that much. Prices should go down the further we get into the new year. Given your novice status with regard to clarinets, I recommend you stick to the following makes (in alphabetical order): Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer and Yamaha. Keep an eye on the classified ads in your newspaper. You probably won't find much but you might get lucky. If you want some (free) help finding/evaluating an instrument on eBay, e-mail me privately.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: chuck
Date: 2002-12-10 22:11
I wholeheartedly agree with Jack kissinger's approach to resolving this. Chuck
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-11 13:29
I've been talking to my husband....it looks like we're going to research clarinets out more the next few weeks before making a decision. He's talking about saving and trying to find one for about $100 if possible.
This one some of the pins look like they probably rusty looking at where you'd use a screw driver at to remove them. Also 2 keys stick really bad if you push down on them. They don't go back up by themselves at all. So my husband isn't even sure it's fixable.
We have decided it's to expensive for profession repairs for sure.
I don't have a clue on how to fix those sticking keys and they just don't go up by themselves!
As far as pads go I've temporarily been cutting up a cereal box and gluing little pieces of cardboard together trying to make temporary pads to see if will even work if we get pads. Even making wedges in them if necessary to stop air from leaking where it's obvious air is leaking. I haven't glued anything in! Just placed them in so they're easily removed. That's done and it's still leaking somewhere and I can't seem to find the source. I can get a couple notes out of it, but it sounds bad! Real bad!!!
If we decide to scrap this one (and from what my husband says we probably will :( (I wouldn't mind working on it still though and trying to figure it out.....learning and not recking a good clarinet on learning)) my husband's also been watching another thread on the list about touch lamps?....Our living room needs a lamp desperately. So I think he's thinking about turning it into a lamp. He hasn't said it for sure, but he sure seems to be leaning that way. I'm still trying to rescue it though. I'd hate to see a clarinet turned into a lamp! However if that happens then the money spent on it wasn't a total waste. It wouldn't be usuable as a clarinet, but it would still be getting used.
Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it!
Hope you have a Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-13 11:45
Well our newspaper hasn't had any adds whatsoever for clarinets (except for from the one store).
My husband said in a couple of months we'll try on e-bay again and go to about $100.....$120 with shipping.
He has seen one he said I could bid on now if I don't go over $20. It's brand new, but it's not one of the brands mentioned above so I'm not sure.....It's a Bestler. He said it should be o.k. if it's just temporarily for a year or two and then get a better one if I pick up on it again quickly and all. It comes with a one year warrenty but one year warranty always tells me as soon as the year is over it'll fall apart. Any warranty is that way it seems. They should say this is warrantied to break down in....however many years from date of purchase!;)
If anyone wants to see it it's at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10182&item=929472665&rd=1
As far as the metal one goes. I've talk my husband into letting me continue to putter around with it. So I've saved it from becoming a lamp...at least for now! I might not be able to totally fix it, but when I can get a clarinet it should help me be able to do some of the repairs on it myself when it needs repairs. And with this one being old and pretty much unusable it would be better to learn to work on this and not mess up a good one sometime trying to do something I don't know how to do.
Thanks for all the help! It's really been appreciated! You've helped alot with decisions I wasn't sure about!
Hope you all have a Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-13 13:00
Deborah wrote:
>
> seen one he said I could bid on now if I don't go over
> $20. It's brand new, but it's not one of the brands mentioned
> above so I'm not sure.....It's a Bestler.
Don't throw away your $20.00. Do a search here for Bestler and you'll find out why ...
> It comes
> with a one year warrenty
Think about it - shipping and handling will cost more than the clarinet - and after the 4th or 5th time you send it in over the course of the next year you will have spent significantly more than you need to buy a decent one - and you won't have a piece of junk on your hands.
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Author: Deborah
Date: 2002-12-13 15:38
Thanks!:) I'm glad I checked first.
Hope you all have a Wonderful day!
Deborah
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Author: Eugene
Date: 2002-12-13 22:54
rent from a local reputable dealer let them worry about maintenance and if there good rent to buy
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