 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Laur
Date: 2002-12-08 07:06
Ok. I need your help.
I started playing clarinet in 6th grade. I skipped beginner and intermediate level and went right into Advanced Methods. I made all the honor bands etc. I went to a private school, whose music program was horrible - ( group lesson once a week - end of yr concert, no real band) In HS, I transfered to Public school, studied privatly - soon, i was principal. Auditioned and was accepted to music school -where I am now. I am Music Education with a performance certificate.
I can't count. I don't know how I made it this far. My rhythm is horrible beacuse of this. I understand the logistis of it all - I understand where the beat is, how to count it but as soon as I play it - forget it.
I work with a metronome, play all my etudes in odd meter. I've played drum books and solos as technique studies. I've done rubank, klose, rose, cavallini - you name it. I practice 2-3 hours a day. I'm doing everything I possibly could think of.
My teacher says that there are 2 types of kids in this world : Thoes who just can't count for the life of them.. and thoes who can, but don't want to. He says i'm in the latter group. I want to count ! I want to learn and succeed. I don't know what else to do. He's getting really mad and frustrated with me ~ Like i would do this on purpose..Come on.
I'm so frustrated. I walk out of each lesson in tears - I feel like everything i'm doing is wrong. I'm actually scared to play - I dread lessons each week. I feel like all the time i'm putting in is a waste. It's soo frustrating. I don't know what else to do.
Help ! I'll do anything -
Laur
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Author: Dan Borlawsky
Date: 2002-12-08 12:22
Laur -
First, do you understand some method of counting (there are many), including subdivision of the beat? Do you say the rhythms silently (according to whatever method) as you play? If not, try to get some help in integrating this into your practice routine. Start with easy rhythms and work your way to more complex ones.
I find it hard to accept that you have made it as far as you have with "horrible" rhythm. Maybe you have just been told that. You had to take an audition, right? They must have seen potential in you; stop beating yourself up over this, and work on a solution.
RE your teacher: he's supposed to be there to HELP you and inspire confidence! If this just isn't working, is there any possibility of changing teachers? If that's not possible, how about changing schools? You need to look into all possibilities which will help you improve both your playing and your self-confidence. Examine your goals: are you hopeful of becoming a professional performer? If so, you must have the very best teacher you can afford; if you can't afford the one you want, look into scholarships. If you are going to teach, it helps to be a fine player, but you may have excellent teaching skills without necessarily being a pro-level player.
Good luck in your quest.
--Dan
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-12-08 13:55
Laur -
When you have talent, it's easy and tempting to play fast. I suspect that you haven't work through the "sticking point" systematically.
That is, I'm sure you can set a metronome at 60 and play a perfect C major scale one note to the beat (but see below). And you can probably set the metronome to 144 and rip a pretty good C major scale in 16ths.
However, if you work your way up, you'll find an intermediate speed -- say, 16ths at 92 -- where you start to stumble a little. That's the point you have to work really hard on. Anthing faster is "faking," and it does you harm rather than good to work at faster speeds, since what you're practicing is making mistakes.
There's no easy way to do it, and when you're already a university music major, it's hard to go back to basics. However, you're not alone. The eminent teacher Leon Russianoff would get high school hot shots in his studio, who would toss off the Nielsen Concerto. Russianoff would stop them, set a metronome at 60 and call for a C major scale. The student would invariably play unevenly with tiny flubs, and Russianoff would say, "OK, here's where we need to start."
Read my posting at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=34403&t=34359 for ideas on how to go about this, and then go to http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=24907&t=2 and http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=16717&t=16708.
You're not alone, and you obviously have the talent.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2002-12-08 14:53
You remind me of a student who, as a seventh grader, moved into my school district from Chicago and was a very talented flutist. She could easily play anything that my band or orchestra was working on (although, curiosly, had trouble sight=reading) and had the kind of personality that put her in a position of leadership and inspiration for many of her classmates. She went on through high school ("A" student) and eventually enrolled at DePaul Univeristy where for the first time, she started having academic and musical difficulties. To make a long story a bit shorter, through testing, it was determined that she was dyslexic and that diability was the source of her difficulties. Throughout her elementary, middle and highschool education (and music), by the strength of her superior intelligence, she had learned to cope with her dislexia without ever realizing her problem by divising her own method of reading literature and musical symbols. Things finally proved too difficult at the universtiy level, she got the help she needed, finally graduated and is now a teacher, mom and happy flute player!!!
Along with all of the other suggestions you will get from others, I wanted to share this story with you as well. Good luck!!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-12-08 15:40
There was a "missing piece" somewhere along in your early music training, but it is not too late to repair the deficiency. It will take hard work and some identification of the specific problem.
Is there difficulty only in sight reading, or is the problem more of a lack of foundation and retention of learned concepts?
My first suggestion, like others have said, is to get back to the absolute basics. I have had some students with the problem you describe and my approach was a combination of written and aural reinforcement.
Use a pencil to write in the subdivisions of notes and beats.(eg: 1 & 2, 1 e & a 2...etc...). Do different exercises in varied tempi and meters. At the same time, sing back the numerical subdivisions. At first, just read the numerical notation that you write to see how it relates to the rhythm. Eventually, erase the written notation, and attempt to play it without any help.
Start with 4/4, 3/4, 2/4, then move on to 6/8, 3/8, 12/8.
After 6 months of written and aural work, using different speeds and meters there should be a marked improvement.
If your teacher will not help you with this approach, do it on your own.
It does work...Let us know how you do...GBK
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-12-08 22:56
Wow, do I understand where you are coming from. I have the same trouble. Glad to read the posts from others with suggestions and stories. Many of my teachers said I was lazy because I sight read well but didn't "follow-through". At 43 I still struggle with counting, math was my weakest subject BTW. But it is coming along and with a lot of practice I feel much more competent. For me I find working this out myself and not wasting my teacher's time is the best approach. I am taking lessons for the first time in 25 years and really liking it this time around. Perhaps like me you need to find a teacher who is the right fit.
Best of luck.
Jean
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-12-09 01:30
I have a lot of the same problems too. What has helped me so far is extensive metronome use (duh) and trying not to rely on my stand partner so much for rhythm when playing in ensembles (chamber music seems to help too). GBK's right about the basics- I recently found that I have great difficulty playing an eighth note and then two sixteenth notes exactly in rhythm. I know how to pick apart the complicated stuff; it's the ostensibly easy stuff that's confusing. Good luck!
BTW, do you study with Dr. Woy (I see you go to Potsdam)? And do you know Mr. Andrews by any chance? He's the flute teacher and also my youth orchestra conductor.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-12-09 04:14
Think about possibly studying rhythms with a really good percussion instructor for a while. Have him or her help you to just bang them out with a pair of sticks on a practice pad or snare drum. Its not simply enough to "know" how to count, it must be ingrained within you, you must OWN it.
If you have never been in marching band, try marching to the beat of your metronome. (Start on the left foot, and alternate with the ball of a foot landing precisely on every beat.
Dont be afraid to slow that metronome WAY down until you can play and count a piece perfectly, then speed it up gradually in 5 beat (or so) increments.
Also, if you don't already, try singing in a choir, preferably one that does lots of reading. (A really good church choir might be better than a school choir for this reason.) I find that while I sing I'm free of the technical "work" of playing an instrument (fingering, reeds, intonation etc.) and can concentrate on the music itself.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-12-09 12:49
I have the same problem, and am attempting to solve it with Dandelot's rhythm studies -- five little books dealing with simple and compound rhythms of varying complexity -- which I carry around with me at all times and pick up whenever I have a spare moment. I'm finding them extremely useful.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-12-09 16:35
Don't be afraid to really listen to a lot of music as well. When you listen, if you have a score to the music, that _can_ help, but really try to hear and feel the different rhythms used.
When walking, try to walk (like in marching band!! hehe) IN A STEADY TEMPO. Then in your head you can think up all kinds of subdivisions.
I find that in order to "count" well, you should have some physical sense of the basic beat somewhere in your body. I feel it in my gut. My husband the tuba player feels it in his fingers. I think everyone has a different place where it is focused, but lack of awareness of this sensation can be at the heart of other rhythmic difficulties.
Just my $.02.
Katrina
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2002-12-09 17:03
I like what Ken Shaw said, particularly. I'm middle aged, returning to clarinet after a long time, and not a great player, but my teacher is having me do exactly what Ken said. I'm working on the intermediate and slow speeds and working on having every note precisely timed and perfectly trasitioned. It's actually quite rewarding work. I then apply it to the passages that give me trouble, and they seem improve nicely. Maybe it is not your problem, but this imprecision has held me back, I believe. And now, I think I can hear this imprecision in other players, too.
Wayne Thompson
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Author: Melanie
Date: 2002-12-09 19:59
I had the same problems when I got to college. I struggled and almost changed my major because of it. Sight reading was awful for me and I would get really nervous whenever I had to do any reading. I brought it up to my teacher and we practiced sight reading together for a little bit every lesson. I tried to read everything I possibly could. I've found that chamber music helps a lot, because I can't depend on anyone else, and I have to play the right rhythm. I think the more you can get your hands on, the more you will improve. Practice with a metronome. Internalize the beat. Hear the rhythms in your head. You'll get it, it just takes time.
Good luck!
Melanie
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Author: Ted
Date: 2002-12-09 22:13
Two things.......
1.go to drum classes, something like African Drumming where you have to learn rhythm patterns and play them in a drum group.
2. investigate the Gordon Method, It has a whole system that helps you internalize the beat.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2002-12-11 02:24
Buy a book called Rhythmic Training by Robert Starer published by MCA Music. Once you can do the exercises in the book you'll be able to count just about anything.
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