 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2002-12-04 21:06
I stumbled across the website http://www.hanson-music.co.uk/index.html.
There have been a few mentions of Hanson clarinets on this board, but nobody has reported that Hanson will soon be offering a titanium instrument. For 2999 pounds sterling (that's very roughly 4000 US).
No, I don't plan to buy one. But maybe it will be a good test of the theory that the material a clarinet is made of has no effect on the tone.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-04 23:24
Presumably titanium would need soldered tone holes. Hence a great contributor to the expense.
However what about making one from "liquidmetal", an new alloy that cna be molded almost as easily as plastic, at low temperature. A lot stronger than titianium, hence can be made as light as titanium. It comes out of a mold so accurately that a molded razor blade needs no machining of the cutting edge. I suspect ythe entire body, complete with posts and tone holes, could be molded in one piece. It has some very special mechanical properties as well, which COULD have acoustic implications, if you subscribe to those notions.
Keys could be made of the same alloy - much lighter, thinner profile, stronger, and far cheaper because of cheap casting of complete keys.
See http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/index.cfm
You'll have to do a bit of hunting around this site (especially the multimedia) to get all the info.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-12-05 00:17
The website (<A href="http://www.hanson-music.co.uk/cdg,t5.t6,titan.htm" target="_blank">click here</A> )says it has a titanium body and silver or titanium plated keys. Sounds like the wooden clarinets are turned out on a CNC lathe/mill and that the metal ones are just thrown in the same machine with the same program.
Interesting.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-12-05 02:47
Gordon, thanx for mentioning "Liquidmetal", I visited their site and looked up a couple of their patents, US 6,446,558 which mentions 5,288,344 among others. Very interesting "amorphous" [non-crystalline] metallic alloys of zirconium and a number of other [expensive?] metals, cooled from a melt exceedingly rapidly to prevent crystal formation. Cal-Tech developed. To "mold" a clarinet body, as I read their technology, will be quite a challenging project. As to titanium, its density is about half that of the usual metals and alloys, so, ? would the wall thickness of a Ti Cl need to be twice that of a brass or steel cl to have similar acoustic properties ?? 'Nuff to think about now? Don
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2002-12-05 06:25
Wouldn't a titanium clarinet be a pain to tune? I think back at all the saxaphones which go out of tune as the metal gets warmer with your breath. Wouldn't any metal clarinet get that problem them?
Alexi
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-05 09:14
I assumed that a titanium clarinet would be THIN metal construction like traditional metal clarinets. If it were made from thick metal, as thick as a timber clarinet, then it would be very heavy. The density is 4 times that of grenadilla!
The thermal conductivity of titanium is about 7 times less than that of brass, but 100 times more than that of timber.
So compared with brass, titanium maintains a warmer air column and less condensation. Compared with timber, titanium provides a cooler air column and more condensation.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-12-05 12:47
Amen - especially when you can buy a decent 'no-name' or stencil clarinet for under $300 - what's left over can pay rent, book a cabin on the Lido deck, or one over-priced Kaspar that will need $250 worth of refacing to play as well as a modern mouthpiece.
But that's another story.
Liquid metal for keys is Gilding a Lilly.
You know this stuff is going to end up on golf clubs.
I like my version of liquid metal better.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-05 13:19
As I see it, "liquidmetal" has the potential for drastically cutting the cost of manufacturing keys, and the keys would be much lighter, much stronger, much more rigid, and better resist corrosion.
Is that what you term 'gilding a lily'? I don't understand.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-12-05 15:17
Titanium is a very difficult metal/alloy to work with.....what's the point?? ANS: Marketing hype since "everybody" is on the Titanium kick now....credit cards etc. Count me out at any price.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-12-06 00:54
Mark Pinner wrote:
>
> Call me a Luddite but why bother?
I don't think you're benty on destroying the machinery ... but ... why not? You're not the person they're marketing to. The same idea goes for any vastly overpriced and/or overengineered product. Some people have the extra cash and say "I want one". If I had a bunch of extra cash I might want a Porshe 911 Carrera Turbo. Which makes a lot of sense in a place that gets 4 months of winter and potholes than can destroy $12K of magnesium rims in one short drive. But I still want one.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2002-12-07 01:01
I think it bears further investigation. Let's wait until it comes out before we rush to judge. Some day someone will come up with an instrument that combines the best qualities of everything we've seen so far, and in doing so, give us the type of instrument we have all dreamed about. I approach these things with an open (as well as objective) mind.
Mark
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Author: David
Date: 2002-12-07 01:17
It would be pointless making one out of this week's must-have material except that if you were play a blowtorch over it, you could get some groovy colours. And knacker the pads. The tuning might go a tad out as well.
I'm kicking myself for missing the carbon fibre wave.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-07 11:02
Well catch the "liquidmetal" wave. It may about to be as big a materials revoution as steel, or plastics.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-12-07 16:08
This intrigueing [sp??] title, just makes me comment again. It seems to me that the Ti cl is well in the future, and also are "liquidmetal" applications, other than for very thin films. Hope I live long enough to see them. Don
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-12-07 17:27
The flutemaker Landell makes a titanium flute. He found a way to solder the metal (at extremely high temperature). See http://www.flutes.org/Instruments/Landell_Flutes/Titanium_Flute/. It's gotten a lot of publicity in the flute world. It's apparently about half the weight of a silver flute, but plays louder. The price is about $20,000, which is the same as what Landell gets for a gold flute, and less than what he gets for a platinum one.
If Rossi made a silver clarinet, I'd buy one in a minute.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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