 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2002-12-05 01:20
Having just started in the repadding game, I began to feel that I must hold the world record in how many times I've had to wipe excess glue from the sides of pads. I was really beginning to feel that I would never "get the hang of it". I've tried the techniques written in books as well other methods from personal advice of others in the field along with what I could glean off the internet. I've tried calculating the amount of glue in the cup over an open flame; I've tried applying the glue to the back of the entire pad;...nothing really seemed to work consistently for me. More times than I care to count, I had to remove the excess with a small screwdriver. And the timing was critical...too soon and the pad might move a little...too late and it was stuck to the side.
Then I tried something different...a new way of applying the glue to the back of the pad that I had never done before...
Basically, it's quite simple. Instead of applying the glue over the entire back of the pad, I applied the glue AROUND THE SIDES OF THE PAD, LEAVING A SMALL "RESEVOIR" IN THE CENTER. I found out that any excess would go to the resevoir rather than out the sides of the pad. Ever since I started doing it this way, I've never had to wipe excess glue from the side of a pad.
My gut tells me that this is probably not truly anything new to some of you "pros", but it was new to me.
I played the clarinet and could not detect any sound change on the large pads that I just finished using this technique.
I hope you find this info useful and I welcome your comments whether pro or con.
Dan Shusta
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-05 08:22
A small crotchet hook (#10?) slid around the key cup is a lot easier and safer than a screw driver for removing glue.
If you successfully had glue RIGHT AROUND the edge, sealing/adhering all the way, then when you pressed the pad in, the pad would operate like a punp, increase the air pressure behind the pad and forcing glue out the sides of the pad. So IMO you are just stating that you have not glued the pad right around.
I find pads glued like this cost the owner of the instrument a lot of my expensive time, trying to achieve RELIABLE seating of a pad that does not have a firm backing and will never be reliable. After all, you are only gluing then covering membrane, not the structural material of the pad. all the finger pressure will have to be taken not by the cardboard, but by the membrane at the sides and back being stretched. As the pad gradually presses further into the cup the membrane will get looser at the front.
In peractice, when I eventually discover that a pad has been installed thus I automatically replace it to achieve reliability.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-12-05 09:41
Float them in with wax, level then seat. Excess wax is a lot easier to remove.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2002-12-05 11:36
To Gordon (NZ): thanks for your informative response. Some of it I understood...the rest I'm still digesting. I agree that a totally solid backing would offer the best support, but the guessing game of proper glue amount can be quite frustrating. (At least for me it is.) I appreciate hearing about the crotchet hook.
To Mark: I appreciate your advice about wax. I agree that wax is easier to remove, however, the wax I have is a very dark tan and is quite noticeable against the white pad. If you know where I can get some clear or white wax, I really would like to try that.
I deal with a very soft, synthetic pad which (for me at least) can be more challenging to install.
Thanks again,
Dan Shusta
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2002-12-05 11:57
Gordon:
What type of wax is best? How well does paraffin work?
Thanks,
Matt
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2002-12-05 12:15
To Gordon: After digesting your response a little bit further, I just wanted to add that I put a fairly good amount totally around the pad and from my prespective, the edges of the instrument hole would press against the pad with glue above it. Perhaps in my original posting, I might have given the impression that the resevoir was quite large when in fact it's rather small in comparison to the size of the pad. (The resevoir would be right over the hole.)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-05 13:12
Ah! You wrote "...I applied the glue AROUND THE SIDES OF THE PAD..."
I took "back" to mean the parts of the pad that contact the sides of the key cup. But it seems you mean the BACK of the pad, but only around the PERIMETER of the back.
I wonder if your success with this is because the key cup acts as a heat sink and cools the glue to a less fluid consistency.
I put pellets of glue in the key cup and then heat the cup. The temperature is important - not so hot that the glue becomes very runny, but hot enough to stick well to the pad. I sit the pad on the glue, and then wipe the key cup over a wet patch on my smock until it doesn't sizzle. Then I know the glue is at a certain manageable viscosity before I press the pad in more firmly.
My concern is that unless the cup is heated the right amount at some stage, adhesion may be unreliable. It is common for stick glue to adhere poorly to a cold metal surface.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2002-12-05 13:26
Gordon: Thank you for pointing out how inadequately I've been expressing myself (I need to improve!).
Yes, after putting the glue on the perimeter of the back of the pad (leaving a small hole in the middle), I then lightly press the pad into the cup. After installing the key, I use a resistance heating unit to heat the cup just hot enough until I see the cup beginning to descend lower over the pad.
So far, it works every time. I hope this is a better explanation.
Dan
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-12-05 15:13
I always put the solid glue in the cup....unless I'm installing on a cup that's on an installed key in which case I use liquid(not melted) glue and put it on the pad.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2002-12-05 23:17
I heat the glue in the pad cup, that eliminates the "cold metal" problem. You can also judge how much glue you will need using this method. This you will eventually get a "feel" for. I also rotate the pad at least once to insure the glue is evenly distributed.
Mark
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-12-06 01:32
For the reasons Mark gives above, rotating the pad (and, I might add, cleaning the cup), I don't favor installing pads with the key on the instrument. If there's some reason the key can't be removed you need to fix it anyway. I've found that it's no waste of time to just take the key(s) off. You can also check the hinge for proper oiling that way.
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Author: Hans
Date: 2002-12-29 22:17
I have often wondered why pads are installed with a glue that must be heated. Would silicon caulking not work?
Hans
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