 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-01 22:37
I've just had a split-open bell tenon socket ring (the nickel plated thing) to deal with. I began cleaning up the surface to silver-solder it - routine stuff. It was black so I assumed somebody had used a black glue in a temporary repair, and ground a bit deeper.
Would you believe it! This ring is made from nickel plated plastic. And I thought the rings were primarily for strength. Yes, there is a split in the socket under the ring too, showing that the ring served no reinforcement function.
This was a Buffet B12. A thousand shames on Buffet! I would expect this low a standard only form Indian manufacture.
This reinforces my recommendation of plastic Yamaha, or have they, too, resorted to using plastic metal for components requiring strength?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-12-01 23:37
Gordon,
You'll find that the thumb rests on Buffet clarinets, even on the adjustable ones, are silver plated (coated) plastic. The "screw" that holds it in place with the circular ring for a neck strap is plastic also. It tends to strip out with use on the metal base plate. It doesn't take an engineering degree to figure out that the threads on the plastic part will soon strip out given time and use.
I agree, how much more could it cost to produce a quality instrument. It seems that with coporations the only concern is the profit. However, companies will soon find that consumers would rather spend a bit more for something that will hold up and give them their monies worth.
jbutler
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lawrence
Date: 2002-12-02 01:32
I work in a music store and we have on hand a used B12. I was playing it and also noticed the plastic thumb rest. It seemed pretty weak to me. Also the fit between the bell and lower joint was very poor - a large mismatch in the inside diameters. If I remember correctly, it was made in Germany. I expected much better.
Lawrence
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-12-02 04:54
I have had about 4 broken B12's through the workshop in the last couple of months. I tried to get replacement body parts and other bits and pieces to no avail. You can't get a replacement body ring, I have seen two shattered in pieces after being dropped, for a B12. They keywork breaks easily too. They are total rubbish and Buffet should be ashamed of putting their name on the bloody things. They have a student model flute in the same price range Gordon watch out, they are something else.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rene
Date: 2002-12-02 06:04
I actually play a B12 since years. It is a fine starter instrument.
If you drop it high on hard surface, it may break. That's true. You can replace the complete bell only, true. I find nothing wrong with that. I would have sworn that my thumb rest is metal. Now that you tell me, I admit it may be plastic, but a very hard and durable one. I still can't tell. My thumbrest is just as durable as ever. I never had problems with breaking keys. And I did a good deal of bending to accomodate the clarinet to me. I also changed pads a good number of times, removed the keys, played the clarinet in bad weather, had my kids play it. Nothing broken yet. All it needs, is a little bit of service every now and then.
I also appreciate the good workmanship of a professional clarinet. But to call these 450$ clarinets rubbish is way to harsh.
Rene
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2002-12-02 09:35
It depends on the type of plastic. Some are stronger than metal. I understand some or all Mercedes cars have plastic fuel tanks. People buy plastic clarinets because they are not prone to splitting. Worth analysing in a calm manner whether the material is good enough for the job, before merely labelling and shaming it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-12-02 13:13
Ah, but slamming the Big Dogs is so much fun!
Who shall we nitpick next?
I wonder if the choice of materials was made with the elasticity of the plastic body in mind; would metal tenon rings constrict the movement of the material?
Weight, speed of manufacture and build cost must certainly figure into the selection of materials.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-12-02 14:15
A question pops to mind (mine at least). What purpose does a tennon ring serve on a plastic instrument? I am sure the design team (an alcoholic in the corner?) at B&H had to answer this. If, as I suppose, the answer is it is a decorative hold over from wooden clarinets with no structural purpose when plastic is used, then a chromed piece of trash plastic is just fine.
Doesn't Buffet make a clarinet with no rings? To be fair this point may be moot if that no-ring clarinet is wood!
So the plastic ring on a plastic clarinet doesn't bother me... the plastic thumb rest and plastic screws cannot, in my view, be rationalized away. That is just bad design which indicates poor quality.
I am not likely to be in the market for a plastic clarinet any time in the future... another reason this doesn't bother me. You can bet that if I ever need a new Buffet I will check into that ring material... no way a piece of plastic faux tennon ring belongs on a wooden clarinet where strength <B><font color="Red">is</font></b> required. So if anyone knows if the more prestigious models from Buffet use plastic rings, rests, and screws I would like to hear about it.
Thanks, Terry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-02 19:39
This ring was simply not up to the job. It had split apart, and so had the tenon socket it should have been supporting. It is a soft, cheesy plastic, probably ABS, offering very little strength, and because of ornamental the groove in the ring, the socket would have been stronger if it had been left with no ring provision at all.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-12-02 19:55
The top end of the bell bore is intentionally made smaller than the bore at the bottom of the lower joint. It reflects the vibration back up the instrument. See the thread at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=96104&t=95987.
Incidentally, Buffet uses plastic rings at the top end of the line, too, on the Elite. These are said to be stronger than metal, and of course they don't call them "plastic," though that's what they are. The advertising says that metal restricts vibration and the rings on the Elite do not. Pure advertising hype, IMHO.
Best regards.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rene
Date: 2002-12-03 05:34
Acutally I never understood the metal rings on clarinets. Metal works much more with temperature than wood, and wood works with humidity, which has no effect on metal at all. So the materials are just a bad fit. Keeping off "vibrations" is a myth anyway. I believe these rings are merely decorative. On a plastic clarinet, the ring must be plastic too or else you run into lots of troubles. So why not leave them off anyway.
The ring at the end of the bell has a better excuse, since it protects the bell somewhat. Still, it seems to be more trouble than good.
Rene
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-03 11:09
Of the thousands of plastic clarinets I've worked on, metal rings have never been a problem (except the larger end of the bell, where compressing one on is more difficult). Presumably they are pressed on, putting the plastic under compression, such that even in cold weather, when the plastic has shrunk more than the metal, they don't come loose.
Perhaps the Elite model is using a carbon fibre reinforced polymer, which would be ideal. that is very different from using the likes of ABS plastic.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Benny
Date: 2002-12-03 23:14
B-12s are made in Germany, not India. (However R-13s are made in France.) I have never had any problems with my B-12, or my R-13 for that matter. (Knock on wood but not on a wooden clarinet!)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brian
Date: 2002-12-04 00:32
Somebody PLEASE tell me my beloved Leblanc has no plastic rings or anything else!
PLEASE!!!
Brian
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-04 09:58
I'll oblige, seeing you plead:
I'm not sure about right now, but in the last decade at least, they have used a cork adhesive that to me resembles cheese, with adhesive properties almost as poor as cheese. And I think they used it for pads, too for a while. It mystifies me why they continued using it for so long.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
