 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2002-11-30 03:10
Man, I just bought a real nice Leblanc LL for a good price. It was made in '76. It arrived two days ago. It plays very well and it was setup nice too. On the second day my barrel cracked! Im so bummed. Can it be fixed? Im a doubler so Im not real sure about these things. Its an obvious crack straight down top to bottom. When I play loud it leaks bubbles, etc. Is it a costly fix or do I have to buy a new one? I tried my click barrel and my yamaha plastic barrel and they both dont sound nearly as nice as the LL barrel (before the crack, that is- heck, even with the crack!).
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Author: Cliff Tetle
Date: 2002-11-30 04:00
Hi,
Go and have it professionally pinned. If you can't find anyone, use my repairman; he's great! Georgi Kasumov 617-267-7704
All the best,Cliff
Tell me how you make out.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2002-11-30 04:04
How much does something like that cost? Is it cheaper than a new barrel
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Author: Robert
Date: 2002-11-30 07:02
I'd try getting it glued before getting it pinned. Go to a professional repair person. It shouldn't cost much.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-30 10:54
Of more interest and concern would be the conditions preceding the occurrence of the crack. If it were mine I'd superglue it for less than the cost of one tube of glue. Chances, then, are that it will work fine. If you pin it, it might crack in a different location and then you're out the cost of the pinning which is much more than glue. As I said, "if it were mine".
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-11-30 12:33
Have a professional repair person decide on the best method of repairing (pinning, gluing, both) and have them do it. DON'T DO IT YOURSELF.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-11-30 12:59
The allusion made is that you may have escaped worse damage... the barrel cracked before the upper joint was damaged.
You may wish to treat this clarinet as if it were brand new, and follow a cautious 'settling' period. (Don't play too much at any one stretch, and work up gradually to your desired duration.)
Getting a replacement barrel for the LL maybe a little more difficult than for other clarinets, due to the larger bore.
Try Muncy Winds, Jepp barrels and perhaps Fobes for a barrel that has a rubber insert with the proper bore dimensions.
I wouldn't suggest the repairs listed above, my tech charges double if he must unfix my work to make a proper repair.
No reason why a decent tech can't set this barrel right!
PS - Get a 35mm film cannister, punch holes in the lid and put a small piece of damp sponge inside. Keep this in the case to make a more stable degree of humidity for your new baby.
Oh yeah- change the sponge monthly.
Remember, for a slight additional charge, anything is possible.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-11-30 18:14
Dollars to donuts it was already cracked. The crack closed due to it drying out. Once you started playing on it (hydrating it again) it cause the crack to spread. I know you can not prove that, but I would bet on it. You probably can not get any remediation at this time. The LL is still being produced by LeBlanc and you can get a barrel from LeBlanc. The part number is 2351 and retails for $165. You can get it for less through special order though I'm sure. Dealer cost is about half retail plus S&H.
jbutler
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Author: Sandra F. H.
Date: 2002-12-01 03:31
One should let a wood instrument adjust to humidity and temperature before playing. The best advise I ever received about playing a new instrument (shipped to me) was to open the case upon arrival and let the instrument sit for 24 hours before playing at all. Wood instruments need to adjust whether new or used. Have a repairman check the whole instrument, not just repair the barrel. I would consider gluing a plastic instrument that I didn't care about, but I would never attempt to repair a better instrument...Sandra
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-01 09:05
The pinning is to stabliize the timber - to stop it expanding more. If the metal rings are appropriately fitted to both ends of a barrel they serve the same purpose as pins, so there is no point in pinning a barrel. The split probably occurred because of poorly fitting rings.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-01 18:02
No the metal rings that come on the barrel do NOT serve the same purpose as the pins inserted for crack repair. The rings are to support and stabilize the socket so it doesn't break when you insert the mouthpiece and upper joint tenons into the socket. The rings do nothing to support the body of the barrel.
Now there is an older way of closing the cracks. It is called banding. Several bands are put around body of the joint to push the crack closed but they are put at strategic locations along the crack and are entirely different than the rings on the sockets.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-01 20:01
Traditionally there has been two methods of stabilizing timber around cracks. One is pinning, the other is flush-banding. The latter is functionally identical to the metal bands on a barrel, except that they had to be shrunk into a groove using a preess, rather than pressed on the end. As far as I know the only reasons that it is not still more commonly used are appearance, risk of damage (timber chipping) near tone holes, very expensive equipment needed.
So what are you saying, Dee?
(I agree that the bands are there to stabilize the thin, weak timber at the tenon sockets, but they do indeed fulfil an uincidental purpose of greatly reducing the likelihood of cracks in the body of the barrel.)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-01 22:28
I was saying the purpose of the metal bands on the sockets are to protect the thin wood at the sockets. While it *may* reduce the likelihood of the body cracking, that is not the purpose of the bands on the sockets. If you look at the bands from an engineering standpoint they won't do a thing for the body of the barrel except that by preventing cracking of the socket then you won't have cracks starting at the socket and propagating to the body. It would not prevent cracks from starting in the body itself.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-01 22:44
Dee, you appear to have some engineering nous. So you will appreciate that cracks almost always begin at a stress raiser. This is born out by my experience in repairing many cracked bodies. The only stress raiser on a barrel is at the ends where the diameter sudenly reduces, for the ring. In my view a well installed reinforcing ring keeps the timber in this vicinity under sufficent compression or minimal tension, that splits do not start here.
I wonder if sinkdraiN's barrel really started spliting somewhere other than the ends. If that were the case you would have a case.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-12-01 23:46
Well, I'm "no" engineer, but I've seen many a socket split because of loose rings. It doesn't matter where...I've seen it on barrels, lower joint sockets and bell sockets. Now whether that would generate a split on into the body of the instrument I'm not sure, BUT every barrel crack that I've seen runs the full length of the barrel. It seems it just doesn't begin and end at the socket.
I also think that barrels really aren't worth pinning. I think that other less costly methods are just as good. What about it, Gordon, do you agree?
jbutler
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-12-02 02:49
Gordon,
You've said the same thing I did. The socket ring is supposed to stop cracking at the socket. If the socket does crack, naturally it can propagate.
However, the socket ring provides NO support to the body only to the socket. Yes by preventing the socket from cracking, you won't have a crack propagate into the body but that does not mean the socket ring provides any structural support to the body. The body is protected by the fact that the chance of socket cracks is minimized.
But if a crack should start in the body, then the socket ring does nothing to prevent it or stop its propagation. Stress risers are not always visible. Wood is non-homogeneous and its own internal makeup can result in a stress riser internal to the wood itself that cannot be seen from the outside. In addition, natural variations in the wood structure can result in weak spots that cannot be detected. So a crack could conceivably start anywhere.
As short as a barrel is, it is no surprise that a crack would run the full length before it is noticed. Once it has done so, it's doubtful that the initiation site of the crack could be determined.
I do agree that it is highly likely that the cracks start somewhere in the socket area. Thus if crack initiation is prevented in these areas, the overall chance of cracking is greatly reduced but not eliminated.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2002-12-04 02:18
Thanks for all the great input! I went to my local music store and they gave me 6 barrels to try and use temporarily until I get it fixed. One barrel was a Leblanc barrel but it was too long (maybe an A). The other 5 were Noblet barrels. I choose one Noblet that I think will work for awhile. I know someone on the net who has a Jepp barrel for sale. Is there any reason why a Jepp barrel would be better than a new LL barrel?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-12-04 10:06
I agree John. As I wrote before, "If the metal rings are appropriately fitted to both ends of a barrel they serve the same purpose as pins, so there is no point in pinning a barrel. The split probably occurred because of poorly fitting rings."
I would just fit the rings tightly and fill the split.
Dee we do seem to agree, with little more than a semantic difference, which you highlight in your second paragraph.
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