 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2002-11-28 13:44
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I have a question about the trill keys. All the instruments I've played have always had "inline" trill keys. Is there any advantage to "offset" trill keys? Is one design really that much better than the other or are they pretty much the same? If they are pretty much the same, then why make a different design?
Thank you in advance.
Dan Shusta
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Author: javier garcia
Date: 2002-11-28 14:24
AFAIK, in line trill keys have less problems due to water condensation, because they are outside the water path. This could make a special difference for RH Eb/Bb and F#/C#.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-28 15:01
I have a copy of LeBlanc's early patent, US 1,9xx,xxx, [will find and post it], which, like all well-written patents, describes the "prior-art" problems and the inventive solution, for what became known as the "jump" trill keys. I believe one of several benefits was the "opened-key" VERTICAL approach to seat on the tone hole, rather than with an "angular" approach. Will research here, also read LeB's ads on this. Don
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-11-28 15:30
I really like LeBlanc's approach. All four keys have their own posts. It is easier to swedge to tighten up the key action with this design. Most other makers have to top two trill keys on the same post with one the second from top riding on the hinge tube of the top key. It is easy to swedge the top key, but much more difficult to take the play out of the other. I've approached this in different ways; however, I have not found a solution which I am totally satisfied.
It seems that other makers have not progressed from early 1900's key designs. A lot of vintage clarinets had the same key design for the left hand lower joint keys. There was only one post for the two keys: C#/F# and B/E. The makers finally got away from that inferior design, but have not done so for the upper two trill keys with the exception of LeBlanc.
I also like LeBlanc's approach to the lower joint D#/G# and F/C keys. They are also on separate posts with room to swedge if necessary. One has to be rather inventive at times with other makes to take out the excessive play both end to end and side to side.
This is NOT an endorsement for LeBlanc. I do play a LeBlanc Bb now after playing Selmer for years and my current A is a Yamaha Custom SE. Both of these clarinets are lovely instruments to play. I still use my Selmer Centered Tone as my second/back-up clarinet.
jbutler
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Author: richard
Date: 2002-11-28 15:31
I have a LeBlanc Espirit with jump keys and a LeBlanc Concerto with offset keys, and I don't find that one has an advantage over the other. (And the Concerto is the more expensive model.)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-11-28 23:46
I'd love to hear from someone who's recently bought a set of Howarths, because they look beautiful and some of these innocations in their key design seem like they could really work. I'd like to know how they play!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-29 16:29
As Archimedes shouted, "Eureka", on discovering the water-displacement principle [read about him, interesting!], "I have found it", Leon LeBlanc's [Paris, Fr] ?earliest? US Patent 1,926,489, 1933, prob. a combination of several French patents, as three cl improvements are shown and described. Figures 7-11 show the in-line [later called "jump"] trill key structure, the principal advantages [here and in their ads] being diminishing water problems, better pad seating and as JB pointed out, separate [better-located] "axels" here [and for C#/G# and Ab/Eb. Figs 1-6 show register key structures for providing both better 12ths and a good "pinch Bb [well befor Stubbins!!. I have had [later] LeB-Noblet basses with these designs. Figs 12-16 show the separated axels for low F and Ab. These substantial improvements IMHO greatly contributed to LeB's sales and growth to a US "major", from the 1940's+, and caused improvements to cls from Buff, Sel and the "minors". Others, please help with the history! Don
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2002-11-29 22:35
To Don: thanks for going the extra mile. It is much appreciated.
To jbutler: thanks for sharing your repair expertise.
Thanks to all for your inputs. It appears that the "in-line" is a better design. I was considering an "off-set" new clarinet and will certainly take all of the above posts into consideration.
Thanks again.
Dan
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-29 23:34
One of the advantages of bore oiling is less "water" collection in some pads. I can usually tell when my bore needs oiling because I'll start to get some gurgling.
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