 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2002-11-24 05:18
I've heard about clarinet barrels affecting the tone and tuning of a clarinet and making it "better" with a better than stock barrel. I think I may be able to convince my folks to pay for a barrel for my clarinet this Christmas. But what about the bell? I seem to remember some store selling just the bell . . . Is that important too?
I ask cause I have been making the mistake for years of placing my clarinet on the floor on its bell and just recently looked at it and notice that the bell is now getting scratched and starting to develop a flat dull edge where it hits the ground. Stupid of me, I know. Won't happen again....
Alexi
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-24 06:01
Alexi, I suggest you search the archives for earlier posts on the importance of the Clarinet's bell. Many are convinced it is a remarkably critical part of the instrument. In contradisctinction, I believe the Clarinet's bell to be the zenith of ironic design. Oh, yes: do a search for bell tones, as well. This information may lead you to understand why... well, either understand or perhaps wonder even more about why something-or-other, anyway. Caution: this is not a casual topic for the faint of heart.
Regards,
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-24 08:04
Try playing with your bell removed. Sure, the shortening of the instrument does affect a couple of notes, but really, without playing these particular notes, does it significantly affect the others?
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-11-24 10:32
There is no doubt that the bell CAN influence the sound of notes other than the bell tones (as reccent experiments playing with the Co-Principal clarinet of NZSO confirmed)..... my experience has also confirmed that the differences are very small (which may still be significant) and may appear more significant to the performer than the listener (ie- a big difference in "feeling" does not always translate into a BIG difference in sound).
What is moot is rather more the issue of how much bother you really want to go to. The fact that many of the top players have selected their bell when they selected their clarinet, rather than depending on the maker to make the match, suggests it's worth the bother. However, the number of great players who don't care about it, but still sound fabulous, suggests otherwise.
donald
(ps- my R13 B flat is much easier to play with my Yamaha bell, but doesn't quite sound as good. The Yamaha A feels stuffy with the Buffet bell, but the difference in tone is an improvement on two notes while no noticable difference on any other notes in the range.)
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-11-24 11:07
Alexi,
Get a small clarinet stand that folds easily and fits in your case so you will not be placing your bell on the floor. There is also a danger that the instrument will be knocked over and the stand will minimize that to some degree. For about $20, that would make an excellent gift to you from a family member.
HRL
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2002-11-24 12:41
Alexi - Some of the manufacturer's believe that the bell makes a difference as they have made bells which are different that what we're used to seeing. The Mazzeo models that Selmer produced numerous years ago had a bell with less flare and no metal ring. Yamaha's current production includes a bell that has a "depression" or "trough" on the interior of the bell. I've played one of these instruments and did not like it. I believe that manufacturer's look at a bell as a way of optimizing the overall design of the instrument and experiment with the amount of flare and other parameters. I think from the above postings that it is obvious that you should play test numerous bells before you buy one.
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-11-24 12:49
Hi,
I found an interesting thing out a little while back. When I tried to put my Buffet into a Selmer USA case, th bell was too large for the case but the bell on my Series 9* fit just fine. I made a real mistake when I sold off an extra Series 9 last summer that had the original zippered case that was in very good shape (I shoudd have sent the buyer the Selmer USA case and kept the zippered case for myself).
Just an observation.
HRL
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-24 13:28
I have often wondered why they didn't make all bells out of "plastic" seeing as the bell requires such a large piece of wood.
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2002-11-24 13:36
I've got a Selmer Signet and my teacher has a Buffet, and the Buffet bell is visibly wider than the Selmer bell. (So not surprising a Buffet bell didn't fit into a Selmer case.) He thinks I'd get better projection if I used a bigger bell. One problem with trying it out is that bells are not commonly sold as separate items as barrels are. Anybody have any experience with bells affecting the projection or volume (as opposed to just the tone) of the clarinet?
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Author: William
Date: 2002-11-24 17:23
It isn't a question of *size* but rather *accoustics*--how well the particular design of the bell matchs that of the bore for optimum tonal focus. Often, it is an accidental "marriage." For example, I improved the intonation an tonal projection of both of my Buffet R13s (A & Bb) by accidently switching the bells one day. The switch had the most noticable effect on the A with greater projection and less tuning challenges in the upper clarion register. That bell seitch, combined with a newly aquired Moenneg barrel, has made my R13 A a pleasurable instrument to once again play.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-11-25 17:06
Another aspect of this is the increasing use by players of basset-horns bass-clarinets and yes I've even seen one on a contra, of wooden bells replacing the original metal.
That's a lot of trouble and expense to go to, so I guess they must think it worthwhile.
I've also seen several Bass-cl. with leather wrapped round the metal bell.
jez
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-25 17:42
sfalexi -
The general rule is that the farther away something is from you, the smaller the effect it has. Nevertheless, the bell definitely has an effect, particularly on the third-line B and, to a lesser extent, on the low E.
The position of the bell can make a difference. Start with the label straight up. Play a mf middle B and then an open G. Then rotate the bell 15 degrees to one side and do the same thing. Keep going until you find the position where the two notes match tone color the best. I have done this on all my instruments and have put a small scratch at the top of the bell to mark where it should line up with the lowest post. (By the way, doing the same thing with the barrel makes a much bigger difference.) For more, see http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=32153&t=32149 .
The top of the bell is deliberately made smaller than the bottom of the lower joint. This enhances the reflection of the vibration back up the bore. The top tweakers adjust this area, but it's not anything you can do yourself. For more, see http://www.woodwind.org/Databases/Logs/1999/11/000876.txt . Note that this posting is by Alvin Swiney, who claims to have been a Moennig apprentice, and he tends to go over the top. Still, it's very interesting.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-11-26 13:53
Dear Ken
Strangely enough I seem to remember in the Rendall book on The Clarinet (London) that acousticians determine the bell plays a great importance in the tuning of the clarinet overall....
though off topic, I notice Benny Goodman in some 50s photos playing on what appears to be a Boosey and Hawkes barrel of a Buffet, what is this about? I tend to never mix barrels up or bells and yet some players do....
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-26 14:45
David -
Goodman played mostly Selmers, but occasionally Buffets. In the 1950s, he took lessons from Reginal Kell and switched to a B&H instrument. The quick way to tell the difference is that the rings on the barrel are flat. Also, the barrel has a slight pear-shaped profile.
Kell put on his ligature with the screws about 30 degrees from the top, so that only two horizontal bands touched the reed. Goodman also adopted this, so when you see the ligature screws off to the side, you know he's playing a B&H clarinet.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-26 23:39
d dow wrote:
<Strangely enough I seem to remember in the Rendall book on The <Clarinet (London) that acousticians determine the bell plays a <great importance in the tuning of the clarinet overall....
The effective length of an air column (which determines pitch) extends beyond the end of the tube. How far beyond is determined by the frequency, so the in-tuneness of the E & B can definitely be adjusted with the diameter. Possibly also the notes a semitone higher. But I cannot see how the diameter would affect notes further up the instrument, unless the player was using resonance fingerings which brought the low end of the instrument back to significance.
So I would question the word 'overall' in what your writing reports, at the same time acknowledging my limited knowledge.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-11-27 01:55
I've always heard (unconfirmend by me) that a lighter (weight) bell will play better than a heavier one. Oh, my God, I've just opened the door for everyone to take their electronic postal scale with them when trying out clarinets now. I wonder what the reaction of the salesmen will be when asked by the customer if they can weigh a few clarinet bells!
jbutler
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