 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2002-11-19 22:01
This is kind of trivial, but I'm curious anyways. I decided to learn a bit of clarinet repair, to do my own pads, corks, and so on, so I bought a beat up old Hoosier Pedler clarinet (and I do mean beat--among other problems, it looks like someone used the end of the top joint to practice whittling!) to practice on, figuring if I made a few mistakes along the way, it was no loss. Anyway, some of the pads in this horn appear to be made of some kind of textured paper, colored red, on a thick black plastic backing. And they all fell out when I took the keys off, whereas the normal felt pads stayed in place. I was wondering if anyone knew what these pads were.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-19 23:10
Hi, Bryan
Congratulations on stepping up to the plate. No better way to figure out how to fix something than to get hold of something that Really Needs fixin'. Looks like you have a winner in that respect. It's crying out for somebody to resusitate it. It might even play pretty well when you get finished with it.
Not funny in real life though, pads falling out like that, I guess (snicker) but, really... did all the red ones just - 'fall out'??? Oh, my... hahahahahahahhahahaha !!!
I mean, once in a while a pad will escape... I've never heard of all of 'em going at once. But, for your purpose, that's great!!! :]
(wipe eyes, regain composure)... Can you disect one to see if you can figure what the material is? I've seen pictures of Chinese made clarinets with red pads. I have no idea what they're made of. Maybe these pads are the same kind and you can enlighten us. That whittled end is great for a tenon restoration project. But wait on that. Before you get too far into it, you might at this point try to determine what kind of 'glue' was used. Gather all the information you can as you go along, step by step. Nothing is too trivial.
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2002-11-20 03:26
> It might even play pretty well when you get finished with it.
Not likely. If I get it to play at all it will be a miracle. The edges of some of the tone holes are damaged. One of the keys is missing the hook that holds the spring. A couple of loose posts.
>That whittled end is great for a tenon restoration project.
Actually, the tenons appear instact. Chunks are missing from the body. I think (though I am not certain) that it's hard rubber. I'm thinking Bondo, actually.
The case smells bad. I was kind of hoping to salvage the case, it's one of those funky fake alligator skin jobs.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-11-20 03:52
Rather than Bondo, you might experiment with an epoxy paste called PC-7. Its harder than Bondo when cured and cures to a dark gray color while most Bondo is light pink. Like Bondo you can shave it while partially hard, and sand it after it is cured. Its fairly expensive, but they sell it in small amounts, try a hardware store or I noticed that my local Home Depot now stocks it.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-20 04:44
I don't know, from your post, how far you wish to develop your repair skills, Bryan, but with the 'learning' horn you have you could probably serve your whole apprenticeship with it!
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-11-21 09:03
The pads may be Chinese or even Russian. I have seen a Russian made high pitch Alto sax with pads like you describe in about 50% of the cups. The other 50% had home made pads with a disc of cardboard covered in felt and then covered in red imitation leather or leatherette. Quite a work of art giving, new meaning to the saying "necessity is the mother of all invention". It also had the old two octave key set up and went down to low B but all the way up to high F. I assume that Bondo is the same as our Plasti-Bond if so it can be coloured with a paint tint so you don't have pink bits. Ferree's have an epoxy filler in black but it is much the same.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-21 17:01
Mark – I guess if home made pads cover the tone hole and are a good level fit they’ll work all right. Very early clarinet keys had flat, often square, hole covering ends with leather gasket pads.
Ferree’s sells Jet Magic and Clear Magic; both are a two-part epoxy adhesive (mix equally) that are recommended for plastic horn repair; pretty good stuff. Hardware stores sell two-part epoxy in handy double syringe-like dispensers that squish out small equal amounts for those little projects. It’s also a pretty handy thing to have around if you like doing odd jobs around the house. I think both Ferree’s and hardware stores, have epoxy in both black and clear. I think you can purchase other colors pre mixed or you can tint the clear any color you wish. Ferree’s also sell Weld-On ABS plastic cement, recommended for socket/tenon replacement. Make sure the surfaces you want to bond are clean. According to Allied Supply, alcohol and other volatile cleaners are Not recommended for plastics as it disturbs the molecular structure, they say, making it more brittle and prone to failure (cracking/chipping(?)) later. I guess using detergent and water, then rinse dry – or light sanding/grinding would be better (?). I’ve used alcohol with no immediate adverse result(s). However, I don’t know the long-term outcome....
I’m holding my breath (8)~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2002-11-21 18:31
I wasn't seriously thinking of bondo. Though maybe I could, and add a couple of rusty fins and pretend it's really an old Cadillac.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-21 18:47
Not a sax player but don't those horns have red felt pads? Maybe the horn was used by that guy who put pieces of cardboard in his shoes. Many oldtimers used to make their own pads and some even used needles for springs....and lard for cork grease.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-21 19:46
Yup. I sorta remember that... I guess we go waaaaaaay back, don't we??? :]
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-22 11:33
....further than I like to think about.....
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Author: Donna
Date: 2002-11-22 17:31
Hi there,
forgive me for sticking my nose in here, but I just bought an old clarinet off Ebay. It was the right price (which means inexpensive), but has presented me with a lot of puzzles. One of them was why it had red pads on it! The pads are still sound and didn't fall out like the ones mentioned above. They do look like leatherette. So thank you to those that mentioned the different possiblities for having red pads.
The clarinet is supposed to be a LaBlanc, and indeed it says as much on the clasps that close the case, but I can find no indication on the clarinet itself. It's wooden, supposed to be about 60 years old and is a complete mystery to me. The bell appears to be plastic, but it's hard for me to tell. I'm not well versed in musical instruments at all, so forgive me if I call something the wrong thing!
My daughter compared her modern Jupiter to it, and the older clarinet is about an inch shorter and missing three keys on the bottom barrel and one on the top. They do not ever seem to have exsisted on the older instrument. There was string wrapped around the places where the cork should have been. She was able to play it to some extent, but couldn't hit any higher registers. There is also a jointed key. I thought it was broken, but on closer examination, it proved to have a joint in it. You can see it in the middle of the three pictures still posted on Ebay.
This is the url for the Ebay pictures of the instrument.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920188262
Any help, idea of age or make or type, anything at all would be appreciated. I have a real problem as I bought this as a gift for someone else, but now find myself reluctant to let it go. Well that, and my daughter begged me on bended knee to keep it so she could play it.
Thank you for your time!
Donna
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Author: Henry
Date: 2002-11-22 19:12
Looks like an old Albert system clarinet to me. But if the Leblanc name/logo is nowhere to be found, it is probably NOT a Leblanc, in spite of the case. Also, are you sure it is a wooden horn? It looks awfully shiny to me!
Anyway, it may be a reasonable player for the price. Good luck with it. Henry
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Author: Henry
Date: 2002-11-22 19:22
Sorry, guys, this was in response to a totally different post in a new thread. I don't know how it ended up here!
Henry
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Author: Henry
Date: 2002-11-22 19:25
What am I doing?? It DOES belong here!! Sorry for the wasted space!
Henry
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Author: Henry
Date: 2002-11-22 19:35
Since I am rambling now anyway.... I would like to add that red leather pads are not that rare. I have a Dolnet alto sax that I purchased new in the Netherlands in the mid-fifties. It had red pads. In fact, except for two recent replacements, all the original pads are still there and in good shape!! Henry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-22 20:44
Donna, Sorry, I believe you have fallen prey to a "DISPLAY MODEL" of a mid 1880's clarinet, I have one also, small comfort. If it plays at all, it [mine] is very poorly. Its prob. Chinese or other made, the LeBlanc is prob. case only [it may be worth what it all cost!]. My only suggestion, if my guesswork is correct, would be to go to your local music store and see what they would allow you on trade for a REAL clarinet. You are not alone in this scam! Don
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Author: Donna
Date: 2002-11-23 15:12
No problem! I actually think it's interesting that it might be a display model from the 1880s. Since I didn't pay much for it anyway, I refuse to be bummed out by the fact that it might not play.
I did take it to my local music shop, and it's going in for an estimate on having cork put on it. Who knows, maybe it'll play decently with real cork on it! If not, I've a lovely little clarinet to display on a wall someplace. I do know that I won't try to pass it off to some other unsuspecting person as a playable clarinet.
I did write to the person I bought it from and she said she got it from an antique dealer who was going out of business.
Thanks for the possible answers to a puzzling question!
Donna
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