 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-15 10:15
There's an unusual bass in C on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922275054, described as a "baritone clarinet." The description reads: "In the key of "C" and is a Boehm system with a double octive key. I believe built around 1890 - 1900 by Ernst Steiber, Markneukirchen Saxony as engraved on the bell. I have owned and played this for over 50 years, playing mostly jazz and dixieland. I had it silver plated, keys, posts and all metal parts about 15 years ago that gave more body to the tone. I am told by symphony players in the old Saxony area (absorbed into Germany befor WW1) that music is still written for it!"
I've heard that Dennis Smylie has one. Has anyone else got one, or played one? Is there anything in the repertoire for it? I suppose it's almost as rare as Dan Leeson's famos bass in A.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: E. Thomas
Date: 2002-11-15 15:00
Ken: Thanks for posting this very interesting item. And thanks, also, for posting the "floboe" article regarding Robert Bloom (one of my very favorite Oboe performers).
I spent over 40 years as a Principal clarinetist and recall seeing Bass Clarinet in A (Ravel's "La Valse"), but there are probably other such parts in the Opera literature. I'll bet Ben Armato would know more about that. I do vaguely recalla Prokofiev piece for Bass clarinet in C, written in the Bass Clef, but I'm not sure about that.
However, I'm certain that there are orchestral parts written for that beautiful instrument.
Thanks again for sharing the item with us.
Sincerely,
E. Thomas
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-11-15 15:22
I don't think Prokofiev ever wrote for bass clarinet in "C" -- everything I've seen from him was for standard "Bb" bass clarinet, but in bass clef (into the range requiring a "low-C" bass clarinet) -- perhaps this is what Mr. Thomas saw. I wasn't even aware a "C" bass clarinet even existed -- could this be the bass clarinet equivalent of the little-respected "C melody" sax?
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Author: Robert
Date: 2002-11-15 15:25
Ken- thanks for the interesting link. I've never seen or heard about a bass clarinet in C!
I play in an opera orchestra, and we come across many bass clarinet parts in A. Did these intruments exist, and when and where were they played? You mentioned Dan Leeson's instrument. Did he have one specially made? Perhaps our bass clarinetist should invest in one, to save him all the hard work of transposing Strauss operas!
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-11-15 16:46
Bass Clarinets in A are being made today by Selmer.
I beleive Dennis Smylie (btw the world's best Bass Clarinetists IMO) has one.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2002-11-15 17:41
"little-respected c melody sax"? It all depends upon the circle of people you speak with about the c-melody. If you spend some time with someone who actually plays one (the numbers are growing) you'll learn that the c-melody is greatly loved and respected for it's unique sound and special qualities.
The trick with a c-melody is that in addition to restoring the instrument to good playing condition you need to use a mouthpiece that is acoustically correct for the instrument. It's common sense that if you attempt to play an old leaking horn with, perhaps, an alto or tenor sax mouthpiece the results are going to be less than concert quality. Excellent c-melody mouthpieces are being produced such as the Ralph Morgan model. Thus, there is no reason why the c-melody cannot play as well as any other saxophone.
Sorry for getting on the soapbox! One sometimes encounters generalizations about the c-melody that aren't necessarily true anymore.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-11-15 17:42
Prokofiev's scores are all in in c. The clarinet parts are supposed to be transposed before they are printed.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-11-15 17:52
I suspect there are more parts for bass clarinet in A than many people are aware of, particularly in works from around the turn of the century (19th to 20th). I have seen two parts in symphonic works in the past year, Rimsky-Korsakov's suite from "L'coq d Or" and Resphigi's "Fountains of Rome." A quick check of Drapkin's book turned up excerpts from Mahler's 4th, 6th, 7th and 8th Symphonies, Rachmaninov's "Symphonic Dances" and 2nd Symphony, and Ravel's "Concerto for the Left Hand" and "La Valse." I expect there are many more examples.
With regard to Prokofiev, if the part was a manuscript copy, it wouldn't surprise me if it was designated for bass clarinet in C. In the International excerpts books, all the parts from his works are notated for the usual Bb and A clarinets. However, a couple of years ago, I remember doing a work whose parts were copies of hand-written parts (possibly the suite from "The Love for Three Oranges"). The clarinet parts were for C clarinet, which wouldn't have been a big deal, except that it turned out that the trumpets, horns and everybody else also had parts for C instruments. In quelling the near-riot that ensued, the conductor explained that Prokofiev's usual practice was to compose in concert pitch and leave it to his publisher to handle the transpositions (without any guidance regarding which instrument to use, e.g., Bb or A clarinet). This work was apparently published as Prokofiev had submitted it. So, even though Prokofiev may not have intended that his music be played by a bass clarinet in C, he may have written it that way and that's the way a copy of the manuscript would have it.
I hope one of our orchestral professionals might elaborate or correct me if I am wrong about Prokofiev.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-15 17:58
About 15 years ago, Dan Leeson got a bass in A on special order from Selmer to use in the Wagner, Ravel, Stravinsky and Strauss parts that call for it. If you follow the Klarinet board, you'll know that he's a bit of a nut about using the instrument the part calls for. When he retired, he sold it to the BC player in, I think, Toronto, who resold it on eBay about a year ago. It went for around $5,000.
I've read that the Festspielhaus Orchestra in Bayreuth owns a bass in A for use during the annual performances of The Ring. There are probably a few others.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: javier garcia
Date: 2002-11-15 19:11
I've seen also Ravel's "Rapsodia Espaņola" and "Pictures on a Exhibition" call for A Bass Clarinet parts. In the Rapsodia the part goes down to the low E.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-15 21:29
javier -
The existence of bass in A parts is the reason all modern Bb bass clarinets -- even student models -- go down to low Eb.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2002-11-15 22:19
Ken,
I'm wondering how silver plating the metal parts could improve "give more body to" the tone?
Is there some science to this that I should know about? I'm not a scientist at all actually, I'm just quite curious.
JK
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2002-11-17 04:39
Just got this email from the great Bass Clarinetist, Dennis Smylie, with some very interesting comments about the "C" Bass Clarinet.
JJM
"Hi John. Regarding the above, Verdi's opera, "Ernani" is written originally for this inst. Parts for B-flat bs.cl. are provided and usually used, but the score indicates a melodic solo line in concert pitch even as the 2 accompanimental sop. cls. ,at that same point in the music, are designated as B-flat instruments. I played this w/Eve Queller a few years ago on a C bs.cl. purchased from Harold Freeman in the 1980's. Jeff Nagata told of seeing this at Harold's store standing up on its downward pointing wooden bell w/no neck.. At first, I took it home to try by adapting a neck. Not knowing its real key at first, I tried my own and others' B-flat necks w/odd tuning results. Bill McCall, visiting from Seattle, noticed that the tone holes were closer to eachother than expected, which suggested another key. Harold Freeman found the neck and sure enough, this was in C. I eventually bought it for $500.00. It was made by Buffet in the first 20 or so years
of the 20th century w/double reg. keys & range to low C (the lowest note in the "Ernani" passage). The downward-pointing wooden bell is of sop. cl. design. It has a vent hole and no ring around its rim. The sound quality is excellent, as w/others of that era, and it tunes well. It was fine in the Verdi opera." Dennis
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-11-19 13:58
I'm awaiting with bated breath a pronouncement from Mr. Leeson as to whether or not we are professionally obligated to purchase and use a bass clarinet in "C" for those Prokofiev parts.......LOL
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2002-11-19 16:20
There was an add in "International Musician" for an A bass in one of the last couple of issues.
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-11-19 23:51
As to the bass in A I am currently playing the Respighi "Church Windows" and the "Nutcracker". Both have parts for an A clarinet. Not really too bad of a transposition. Came across a Rachmaninoff in A and bass clef at the same time. Not quite as fun.
Jean
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-11-20 00:36
Jean, if you mean the Rachmaninoff 2nd Symphony, there are quite a few transposed treble clef parts out there. Ask your orchestra librarian to see if he/she can find one.
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