 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-11-12 02:33
I have an Eb which is roughly the same in its original "jewellery box" case. I believe, but could be wrong, that it is a Baermann system which is a very simple Albert system. To be authentic it should have no needle springs; all the springs are leaf type soldered or cold riveted to the keys. There is usually no side Eb/Bb only the fork the two trill keys are the F/C speaker and a multi purpose trill key. This example has the register opening at the back which is unusual. The G#/Eb key is the same as mine and is a different shape to the key tab on the F/C in 99% of examples. It is probably from around the mid nineteenth century even though the G#/A throat keys are wrap around. Some examples have the G# key at the side. These examples often have shepherds crook drill rods rather than screw in type which can be removed with a fingernail like many Czech bassoons. Coincidentally my Eb came with a whole bunch of very old Rico reeds like this example. They can be made to play fairly easily and have a good Albert system sound, very intense and suit a very soft reed. My guess with this example is Czech/ Moravian because of the bell ring which German examples tend to lack or possibly Austrian.
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Author: chuck
Date: 2002-11-12 03:58
The grooved reed looks to be a "Chiron" (sp?) Vibrator. Used them in the '40's. Chuck
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2002-11-12 04:43
This is one of those simple system jobs very similar to my recently refurbished 1930 Hawkes & Son 11 key instrument.
The key arrangement for RH little finger is similar to very early vintage Conn layout, I believe.
I'd be interested actually, if it was low pitch and if I had not already invested in the Hawkes & Son, of course.
Can't have everything we see can we? Not even Coleman Hawkin's Selmer!!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-12 06:01
At 25" total length, I suggest it is likely a C-pitch instrument. It's almost an inch shorter than any Bb I've ever measured, and it's two inches longer than any Eb I've ever measured.
I also suggest it's an "Improved Müller" (maybe nobody else calls it that, but why not, as that's what it is). Rendall describes this instrument (Third ed., p104) as having originated in 1845 with Heckel, at a time he was visited by Müller. It's like the early Müllers (not the ones with the RT key) except for the "spectacle" rings on the right joint and the lack of the long key on the right side of the R joint, which the rings eliminated (along with eliminating some fingering complications). Two R1 side keys, no rings on the L joint, no "Patent C#"... yep, a late Müller.
The Baermann design didn't come along until 1860 and had several more keys, including a pair of L joint rings. Eugène Albert of Brussels adopted the L joint rings in what we now call "Albert System" Clarinets, plus the Patent C# (an 1862 Mahillon origination), as well as a third trill key and those classy rollers between L4 and R4 key pairs. But Albert did not use any other Baermann changes. The "Albert System" Clarinet, although having better fingering facility than this instrument up for auction, was in fact somewhat of a retrogression from Baermann's design. I suspect, and likely not anyone knows for sure, that the first Clarinets we now call "Albert System" were produced in the mid to late 1860s.
I have an Eb which has fingering identical to the instrument in question. Its major physical difference (other than its size) is that the throat G# key on my instrument goes over the A key, rather than being in a straight configuration as this one is. Some manufacturers must have been really in love with that straight G# key, as it seems a few kept on building them that way until well into the 20th Century. Please observe that the straight G# key would be very difficult to play with L1. In fact, it's easier to hit it with the middle of L2.
This looks like a nice stick, and I'd be pleased to own it. Unfortunately, I have already used up my discretionary funds through something like mid-2003.
Regards,
John
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-12 07:10
I'm by no stretch a historian or an expert on anything, Bob. However, I can offer an opinion because I have a low pitch Carl Fischer clarinet that looks very much like this one except mine has a regular Ab(G#) key, not long and to the side. In any case, this one looks like a plain ol' Simple System to me. I also have an old edition Lazarus method book with a fingering chart for this type instrument which he calls the Albert system. Of course, I don't call it an Albert system and my friends don't call it an Albert system. So, who cares? To me it's a Simple System and it plays pretty nice - that's really all that matters to me. I've had mine for a few years now. You don't often see wood these days like some of the old horns were made of. The eBay one looks pretty nice to me. Like John McA, I'm a little short on mad money these days :|
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-11-12 15:34
Vibrator reeds which some players swore by, I tried some and thought they lacked bite or tone. Looks like a c clarinet or something like that. May be worth having as a curiosity....hmnnn...I would worry about cracks for sure
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-12 15:51
I pretty much concur with the posts above as to pitch, ancestry and the sorry-old-Vibrator reeds, have a few myself [yet!]. I have an old Bb no-name [believed to be German] with a few more [revised] keys, with "salt-spoon"[?] F/C and Ab/Eb structure, but with the "plain" socket rings. My guess is mid 1850s, Interesting, Don
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-14 22:57
ron B: I don't disagree that what you have is a plain ol' simple system instrument, but there's a problem with calling anything "simple system." It all depends on which "expert" you're talking to. Some consider simple systems to be anything older than a Müller Clarinet, while some even include the "Albert System" as a "simple system" instrument.
Whatever you want to call it, it looks lke a beautiful piece. Maybe if I gave up a few little extras like food for a while....
Regards,
John
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